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do you enjoy true stories of the

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supernatural from the people who

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experienced it well then you might like

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my show Jim Harold's campfire hi I'm Jim

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and we've been doing the show since 2009

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and we talk about ghosts cryptic

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creatures UFOs head scratchers you name

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it and you tune in you might hear a

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story like this one and as he was

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driving home he encountered a shadow

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person who seemed to be dressed like a

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monk I know that sounds very strange but

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it was a solid black form and it was

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wearing a hooded cloak tied at the waist

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with the cloak up and it had glowing red

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eyes he sees this thing coming out of a

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really teeny abandoned Cemetery if you

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haven't tuned in I hope you'll check us

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out you can find us on Apple podcasts

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Spotify and wherever podcasts are heard

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it's Jim Harold's campfire and you can

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find it at Jim Harold calm thanks so

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much and stay spooky hey y'all

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Ryan Sprague here as you all know this

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summer in the skies podcast is always

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free to consume but it isn't free to

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create that's why I've started this

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somewhere in the skies patreon campaign

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on a monthly basis you give what you

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think the show is worth you'll be

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helping the show continue grow and to be

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something truly communal and remember

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there are rewards for each level of

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contribution and the list is only

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growing so please help somewhere in the

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skies now by becoming a patron to

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www.fema.gov

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[Music]

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this is somewhere in the skies the

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brains

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[Music]

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welcome to somewhere in the skies I'm

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your host Ryan Sprague and today we're

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celebrating 100 episodes of the show

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with some of the highlights and most

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memorable moments from the past but

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first I want to thank each and every

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person who listens to the show whether

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you were with me from the very start or

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you've hopped on throughout the growth

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of the show or maybe this is even your

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first time listening you are the reason

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we made it this far

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and you have shaped and molded somewhere

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this guy's into what it is today

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when I first decided to make a podcast I

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can honestly say that I had no idea what

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I was doing and where I was heading but

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with the guidance of many other

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podcasters researchers and a built-in

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support system of friends and colleagues

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I stumbled my way through and somehow

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made it this far and I can't pretend it

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was easy this podcast has become a huge

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part of my weekly if not daily routine

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from research to booking guests to

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recording interviews to editing

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producing uploading and promoting it has

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become a job but it's a job like long

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and a job I take very seriously so again

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I have to thank you for following me on

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this journey

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to find answers and with every single

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episode I feel like I'm inching closer

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to maybe binding some of those answers

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UFOs are an unforgiving and rebellious

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phenomenon it doesn't follow any type of

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guidelines structures or patterns it's

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frustrating and it's sometimes

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discouraging but I have met so many

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amazing people along the way on this

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journey that it has shown me that the

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destination isn't the be-all end-all

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really is the journey so I hope you'll

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continue to take that journey with me

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and today we're gonna take a look back

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at some of my favorite moments cases and

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experiences somewhere in the skies and

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what better place to start than with the

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premiere episode my first ever guest on

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the show was UFO historian author and my

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publisher Richard Dolan since podcasts

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are considered a media driven medium I

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wanted to talk to mr. Dolan about the

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effects that media has on the UFO topic

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in how UFOs have influenced media but

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also how media has influenced and even

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controlled our perception of the UFOs

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here's a clip from our conversation on

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Episode one I think what we're looking

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at my basic analysis my conclusion is

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that it's very obvious to see that the

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UFO phenomenon has been an important

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part of national security and an

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important concern and in that lecture

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and in my career I've often like to

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quote a few particular documents one of

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my favorite ones is a CIA document from

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1952 in which the director of scientific

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intelligence writes to the director of

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the CIA that these these sightings must

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have immediate attention that there are

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sightings of unexplained objects at

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great altitudes and traveling at high

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speeds near major US defense

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installations he said that or of such

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nature that they are not attributable to

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natural phenomena or known types of

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aerial vehicles so you know but one of a

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number of statements in the during the

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Cold War that are very highly classified

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in which this phenomenon clearly is

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being taken seriously and yet our media

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which is supposed to be the watchdog the

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guardian of the Republic really mm-hmm

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completely dropping the ball so then the

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question arises are they doing this

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because of their own journalistic biases

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and they're just bought their biases as

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human beings or is there something else

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going on and what I would I would say is

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that there's something more going on the

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media has

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explicitly been working in conjunction

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with the intelligence community we know

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this in the UFO field through something

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known as the Robertson panel where in

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early 1953 the last weekend of the

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Truman White House

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the CIA did its own study and debunking

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of the UFO phenomenon it was already a

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rigged game even then right they they

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made it as one of their conclusions to

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work with major media to debunk the

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phenomenon to the public and we also

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know outside of the UFO subject of

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something known as operation Mockingbird

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which I believe I talked about that a

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little bit in the lecture and

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Mockingbird was a CIA coordinated media

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control program it went all through the

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Cold War 1940s 50s 60s 70s where the CIA

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would have journalists on its payroll

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who would report the news in a way that

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the CIA liked who would sometimes make

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up fake stories the CIA would do this

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they normally would make up fake stories

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internationally and let them come to the

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u.s. that was their way of doing it

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safely but they controlled spin they

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controlled editorial policy we're

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talking near Times Washington Post

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particularly and they're always they're

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the leaders but also television CBS did

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a UFO special in the 60s featuring

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Walter Cronkite the great American

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anchorman was a UFO debunking piece that

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was part of the Robertson panel I would

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say part of the whole operation

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Mockingbird I think I look at it all as

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one thing one piece so in other words

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what I'm saying to you and to listeners

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is that mainstream media has never been

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an honest player or relating to the UFO

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phenomenon and it's not an honest player

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relating really to anything political in

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our society and I think no matter what

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one's one thinks that their political

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orientation is I think if you do an

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objective study of the media you see

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they are they're working for an agenda

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it's an elite agenda it's an

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intelligence community dominate agenda

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it's a financial community agenda as

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well and that these all really work

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together as a control system

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the next clip I want to share with you

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comes from episode 4 featuring Annie

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Jacobson who is an investigative

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journalist best-selling author in 2016

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Pulitzer Prize finalist we talked about

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her book phenomenon the secret history

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of the US government's investigations

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into extrasensory perception and

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psychokinesis and while I'd heard rumors

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that the government had had one time

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look at these topics I had no idea how

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deep the truth it went and just how it

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all came to be this was clearly a

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departure from the UFOs but a very

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fascinating conversation all roads lead

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to the Nazis at least when you're a

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national security reporter covering war

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weapons US national security and secrets

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and phenomena is no different I began

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the story the kind of launch point is

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this discovery by US intelligence agents

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at the end of the war they were called

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Operation owl sauce and they discover a

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weird trove of Heinrich Himmler's

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Science Department documents the

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department was called das on an air Bay

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and this unit within it explored

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extrasensory perception psychokinesis

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map dowsing and then also very extreme

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forms of the occult which Himmler was

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pursuing and pushing among his SS men

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and we discovered this weird cache of

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documents and samuel goudsmit who was

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the lead physicist at the time hunting

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down atomic secrets and you know

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biological weapons secrets and all these

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other things I write my other book

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Operation Paperclip kind of cast aside

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this weirdo what he thought was a sort

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of weirdo supernatural research but it

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comes back into play later because

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you're a few years later because what we

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find out that the Soviets got the other

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half of the dust on an area documents

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that dealt with the supernatural if you

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will

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naturally I think the launching point

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for this extraordinary battle between

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science and the supernatural is it fact

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is it fantasy you know and this this

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question drives the narrative and boy

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was it intensely interesting to research

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and report on this because it's such a

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mystery

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all right so staying on government

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involvement in unorthodox programs

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projects and experiments this leads to

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episode seven featuring prolific author

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Nick Redfern in 2005 a book hit the

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shelves that completely shattered the

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Roswell UFO incident and caused quite a

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stir in the UFO community and beyond

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that book was Body Snatchers in the

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desert the horrible truth at the heart

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of the Roswell story in it Redfern

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brings forth the theory event rather

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than a crashed UFO piloted by alien

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beings having crashed at Roswell is it

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possible it could have been a highly

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confidential US government sanctioned

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program to conduct medical experiments

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on handicapped disfigured and diseased

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Japanese POWs over the New Mexico desert

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in the closing stages of the war the

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Japanese are working on these gigantic

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balloons that would come over to the

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United States with these detachable

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lifting body car type of craft in sort

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of like a kamikaze type mode so the the

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technology for the sort of radically

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different balloon devices were brought

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to New Mexico as well where a lot of the

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studies were undertaken and according to

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the story that was given Sara Mae there

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were actually several fatal incidents in

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with these flights in New Mexico but one

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of them most of them were hidden because

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the military got there first when these

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things came down but with the Roswell

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case as everybody knows that the rancher

277
00:12:45,430 --> 00:12:42,950
at the foster ranch where the wreckage

278
00:12:47,319 --> 00:12:45,440
was found Mac Brazel the rancher got

279
00:12:49,389 --> 00:12:47,329
there before anybody else and that

280
00:12:51,699 --> 00:12:49,399
included the military so they cat was

281
00:12:54,370 --> 00:12:51,709
out of the bag so to speak and in this

282
00:12:56,860 --> 00:12:54,380
case again it was one of these massive

283
00:12:58,199 --> 00:12:56,870
balloon array supposedly with a

284
00:13:01,889 --> 00:12:58,209
detachable craft

285
00:13:03,449 --> 00:13:01,899
and people on board and because you know

286
00:13:05,730 --> 00:13:03,459
you had these connections with the Nazis

287
00:13:08,189 --> 00:13:05,740
and the Japanese and the human

288
00:13:10,230 --> 00:13:08,199
experimentation angle it was all hidden

289
00:13:13,319 --> 00:13:10,240
under this sort of cover of weather

290
00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:13,329
balloons flying discs crash-test dummies

291
00:13:17,519 --> 00:13:15,730
mogul balloons and who knows how many

292
00:13:20,309 --> 00:13:17,529
cover stories now of course the big

293
00:13:21,689 --> 00:13:20,319
question is is that the real scenario

294
00:13:24,299 --> 00:13:21,699
you know as I pointed out in the new

295
00:13:26,730 --> 00:13:24,309
book there are sort of 10 or 12 theories

296
00:13:28,919 --> 00:13:26,740
so what happened at Roswell so you know

297
00:13:31,019 --> 00:13:28,929
they that's why the case is so

298
00:13:33,030 --> 00:13:31,029
controversial because there are so many

299
00:13:36,449 --> 00:13:33,040
theories but this is the one more than

300
00:13:38,429 --> 00:13:36,459
any other that I've sort of pursued well

301
00:13:41,309 --> 00:13:38,439
Redford never admits that he fully buys

302
00:13:44,220 --> 00:13:41,319
this theory his evidence that he brought

303
00:13:46,590 --> 00:13:44,230
forward was very compelling and it

304
00:13:48,929 --> 00:13:46,600
actually coincides with several stories

305
00:13:52,139 --> 00:13:48,939
I heard firsthand in Roswell New Mexico

306
00:13:54,210 --> 00:13:52,149
in a makes a lot of sense that where you

307
00:13:55,980 --> 00:13:54,220
look at it but just like any good

308
00:13:58,139 --> 00:13:55,990
mystery we may never know

309
00:14:02,759 --> 00:13:58,149
what truly happened in Roswell New

310
00:14:06,119 --> 00:14:02,769
Mexico in 1947 moving away from Roswell

311
00:14:09,210 --> 00:14:06,129
we had to Utah in episode 11 featuring

312
00:14:11,669 --> 00:14:09,220
the UFO researcher Erica Lucas she

313
00:14:14,449 --> 00:14:11,679
recalled a very interesting UFO case

314
00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:14,459
reported by pilots for American Airlines

315
00:14:20,999 --> 00:14:17,970
shortly after midnight on January 14th

316
00:14:24,299 --> 00:14:21,009
2016 a pilot reported seeing an

317
00:14:26,269 --> 00:14:24,309
extremely long bright object that he

318
00:14:28,530 --> 00:14:26,279
estimated a mile wide

319
00:14:30,379 --> 00:14:28,540
apparently the air traffic controller

320
00:14:33,449 --> 00:14:30,389
told the pilot that the object was not

321
00:14:36,569 --> 00:14:33,459
detected on radar the object appeared to

322
00:14:39,179 --> 00:14:36,579
keep pace with the aircraft here's Erica

323
00:14:41,210 --> 00:14:39,189
explaining the case and even sharing

324
00:14:42,950 --> 00:14:41,220
exclusive audio from the FAA

325
00:14:47,300 --> 00:14:42,960
communications

326
00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:47,310
would you mind trying to us through this

327
00:14:54,380 --> 00:14:50,010
very complex case and what you were able

328
00:14:57,230 --> 00:14:54,390
to obtain from an FOI a request oh my

329
00:14:59,570 --> 00:14:57,240
gosh this this case was it's truly the

330
00:15:01,790 --> 00:14:59,580
highlight of my time investigating but I

331
00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:01,800
had a I have a friend his name is Pat

332
00:15:07,340 --> 00:15:04,050
Daniels and he hosts the fringe radio

333
00:15:10,250 --> 00:15:07,350
show and he's also an avid ham radio

334
00:15:15,139 --> 00:15:10,260
operator he does all sorts of things

335
00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:15,149
scanning frequencies and and he is he'd

336
00:15:21,500 --> 00:15:18,690
be contacted me because he had listened

337
00:15:23,930 --> 00:15:21,510
to something that was that really piqued

338
00:15:25,850 --> 00:15:23,940
his interest and was almost alarming to

339
00:15:27,590 --> 00:15:25,860
him he had been sitting at his desk

340
00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:27,600
doing some work a little after midnight

341
00:15:34,579 --> 00:15:31,410
on January 14th and he heard a couple

342
00:15:37,910 --> 00:15:34,589
transmissions from a pilot or the crew

343
00:15:40,910 --> 00:15:37,920
of the craft asking what this this

344
00:15:44,300 --> 00:15:40,920
object was that appeared to be keeping

345
00:15:46,670 --> 00:15:44,310
pace with the plane and then you've you

346
00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:46,680
know I mean it was a large orange square

347
00:15:51,949 --> 00:15:49,770
object and he said you know he said I've

348
00:15:54,350 --> 00:15:51,959
in all my years of just scanning

349
00:15:57,680 --> 00:15:54,360
frequencies I have never heard this ever

350
00:16:01,070 --> 00:15:57,690
and knowing that he is a good human

351
00:16:03,410 --> 00:16:01,080
being who was kind of shaken by this I

352
00:16:07,250 --> 00:16:03,420
decided that I was going to try to find

353
00:16:10,790 --> 00:16:07,260
out more and so I grabbed my assistant

354
00:16:12,829 --> 00:16:10,800
state director Jeff Cox and we went to

355
00:16:16,940 --> 00:16:12,839
the ATC the air traffic control website

356
00:16:19,220 --> 00:16:16,950
and just scoured it to find any bits and

357
00:16:21,620 --> 00:16:19,230
pieces of this transmission and lo and

358
00:16:25,730 --> 00:16:21,630
behold we were able to find a brief

359
00:16:29,269 --> 00:16:25,740
snippet of a pilot talking or the crew

360
00:16:59,090 --> 00:16:29,279
talking asking with flight control what

361
00:16:59,100 --> 00:17:07,550
my composure 34 that is Nephi Nephi Utah

362
00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:11,820
and and so what we did men again I was

363
00:17:16,680 --> 00:17:13,690
working with Bill Puckett I brought him

364
00:17:20,220 --> 00:17:16,690
in and we submitted a FOIA request for

365
00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:20,230
radar data for audio logs and our for

366
00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:22,570
the tower logs and for audio the FAA

367
00:17:28,620 --> 00:17:24,610
actually and about six to eight weeks

368
00:17:31,260 --> 00:17:28,630
sent back all the radar data which was

369
00:17:34,170 --> 00:17:31,270
incredible they sent back some of the

370
00:17:36,390 --> 00:17:34,180
audio and there was a portion of the

371
00:17:40,290 --> 00:17:36,400
audio that was redacted which was

372
00:17:43,590 --> 00:17:40,300
curious but after careful analysis of

373
00:17:46,650 --> 00:17:43,600
the radar data we were able to determine

374
00:17:50,070 --> 00:17:46,660
that there was something absolutely

375
00:17:54,420 --> 00:17:50,080
incredible it was spanning almost a six

376
00:17:57,330 --> 00:17:54,430
mile area over a remote part of just

377
00:17:59,640 --> 00:17:57,340
right outside of Nephi Utah so that

378
00:18:03,090 --> 00:17:59,650
coupled with the fact that you've got

379
00:18:04,770 --> 00:18:03,100
the snippet of audio really made a

380
00:18:07,500 --> 00:18:04,780
powerful case you know when you're

381
00:18:10,890 --> 00:18:07,510
looking for for evidence you can't

382
00:18:12,450 --> 00:18:10,900
really argue with this especially

383
00:18:15,150 --> 00:18:12,460
because you know bill Puckett is so

384
00:18:17,100 --> 00:18:15,160
methodical and he sends the data to

385
00:18:19,590 --> 00:18:17,110
other researchers all over the world to

386
00:18:21,870 --> 00:18:19,600
get their feedback and it was it was

387
00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:21,880
quite curious he was able to rule out

388
00:18:28,860 --> 00:18:25,450
anomalous propagation and it's you can

389
00:18:31,710 --> 00:18:28,870
go to UFOs Northwest and actually look

390
00:18:35,550 --> 00:18:31,720
at the great work that he did on the

391
00:18:37,050 --> 00:18:35,560
case and after investigating Jeff Cox

392
00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:37,060
and I reaching out to the community you

393
00:18:42,050 --> 00:18:39,730
know we put an ad on the paper talked to

394
00:18:45,210 --> 00:18:42,060
everybody there did a lot of

395
00:18:47,730 --> 00:18:45,220
investigating and looking at old cases

396
00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:47,740
and things I mean this is an area where

397
00:18:52,710 --> 00:18:50,050
there have been some interesting cases

398
00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:52,720
historically as well

399
00:18:57,899 --> 00:18:54,250
so what's going on there I don't know

400
00:19:01,560 --> 00:18:57,909
him now from Utah we head across the

401
00:19:03,659 --> 00:19:01,570
entire United States in episode 19 with

402
00:19:07,140 --> 00:19:03,669
New York Times bestselling author Ben

403
00:19:10,110 --> 00:19:07,150
Mezrich we talked all about his book the

404
00:19:13,289 --> 00:19:10,120
37th parallel the secret truth behind

405
00:19:15,810 --> 00:19:13,299
America's UFO highway which chronicles

406
00:19:18,870 --> 00:19:15,820
the life and investigations of UFO

407
00:19:20,940 --> 00:19:18,880
researcher Chuck Zukowski in his search

408
00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:20,950
for answers to the mysterious cattle

409
00:19:27,390 --> 00:19:24,490
mutilation phenomenon UFOs and a path of

410
00:19:31,610 --> 00:19:27,400
uncertainty and mystery across America

411
00:19:34,470 --> 00:19:31,620
known as the 37th parallel since

412
00:19:37,289 --> 00:19:34,480
basically the 60s but even earlier more

413
00:19:39,659 --> 00:19:37,299
than 10,000 cows and horses have been

414
00:19:42,450 --> 00:19:39,669
found lying on their left side usually

415
00:19:44,669 --> 00:19:42,460
missing organs the cuts are all circular

416
00:19:46,710 --> 00:19:44,679
and they look surgical and the animals

417
00:19:48,180 --> 00:19:46,720
are completely drained of blood you know

418
00:19:50,820 --> 00:19:48,190
there's no blood at the scene there's no

419
00:19:53,490 --> 00:19:50,830
blood in the bodies there's no witnesses

420
00:19:55,110 --> 00:19:53,500
no footprints no fingerprints no one's

421
00:19:57,779 --> 00:19:55,120
ever been arrested and no one's ever

422
00:20:00,000 --> 00:19:57,789
been caught doing it in the 70s it got

423
00:20:01,890 --> 00:20:00,010
so bad that three state governors got

424
00:20:04,169 --> 00:20:01,900
together and petitioned the Attorney

425
00:20:05,940 --> 00:20:04,179
General of the United States demanding

426
00:20:08,250 --> 00:20:05,950
an investigation and the FBI

427
00:20:10,350 --> 00:20:08,260
investigated used over a hundred agents

428
00:20:12,750 --> 00:20:10,360
and came to no conclusions they found

429
00:20:14,700 --> 00:20:12,760
nothing no one's ever been arrested so

430
00:20:17,610 --> 00:20:14,710
it's this very wide-reaching phenomenon

431
00:20:19,740 --> 00:20:17,620
in multiple states spanning 60 years

432
00:20:22,140 --> 00:20:19,750
that no one can figure out and you know

433
00:20:25,590 --> 00:20:22,150
whether it's related to some weird bio

434
00:20:27,539 --> 00:20:25,600
testing or some some cults you know was

435
00:20:29,789 --> 00:20:27,549
one theory or a biker gang with another

436
00:20:31,860 --> 00:20:29,799
theory it's so vast and the idea of

437
00:20:34,110 --> 00:20:31,870
these animals drained of blood it's just

438
00:20:36,180 --> 00:20:34,120
very creepy you know Chuck believes it's

439
00:20:39,180 --> 00:20:36,190
connected to UFOs there's often

440
00:20:41,190 --> 00:20:39,190
sightings in the same area the ranchers

441
00:20:42,870 --> 00:20:41,200
who see this happening always speak

442
00:20:45,510 --> 00:20:42,880
about things in the sky and then they

443
00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:45,520
think that there's a UFO component it's

444
00:20:50,279 --> 00:20:47,770
a weird one and no one can figure it out

445
00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:50,289
and you know it's it's something that

446
00:20:53,130 --> 00:20:51,850
hasn't really been covered very well

447
00:20:54,990 --> 00:20:53,140
every now and then you'll see an article

448
00:20:56,940 --> 00:20:55,000
here or there but you won't see any

449
00:20:59,370 --> 00:20:56,950
major mainstream you know journalists

450
00:21:00,810 --> 00:20:59,380
looking into it and it's it's just one

451
00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:00,820
of those things and I was always

452
00:21:04,770 --> 00:21:03,010
captivated by it just because it's so

453
00:21:06,120 --> 00:21:04,780
wide reaching you talk to these ranchers

454
00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:06,130
and their trauma

455
00:21:10,170 --> 00:21:08,170
you know they're there animals are

456
00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:10,180
mutilated in a very horrible fashion

457
00:21:15,300 --> 00:21:12,850
right and and to them it's it's a very

458
00:21:17,220 --> 00:21:15,310
big deal obviously because they live and

459
00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:17,230
die by these animals it's part of you

460
00:21:22,290 --> 00:21:19,810
know their their livelihood so it's it's

461
00:21:23,610 --> 00:21:22,300
really kind of a stunning thing and

462
00:21:27,390 --> 00:21:23,620
nobody really knows what's going on of

463
00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:27,400
it the cattle mutilation phenomenon is

464
00:21:33,420 --> 00:21:30,610
very dark and disturbing no matter what

465
00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:33,430
lay at the source of it but dark and

466
00:21:39,690 --> 00:21:35,890
disturbing is an understatement when it

467
00:21:41,610 --> 00:21:39,700
came to this next topic in episode 24 I

468
00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:41,620
interviewed investigative filmmaker

469
00:21:47,250 --> 00:21:44,770
Chris Guerin Tommy guarantee no has been

470
00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:47,260
on a lifelong search for answers to the

471
00:21:52,380 --> 00:21:49,690
Montauk Project said you have been

472
00:21:54,630 --> 00:21:52,390
carried out at Camp hero on Long Island

473
00:21:56,730 --> 00:21:54,640
New York the government claims that this

474
00:22:01,050 --> 00:21:56,740
site is a shudder of military base that

475
00:22:03,210 --> 00:22:01,060
once protected Americans but for decades

476
00:22:05,700 --> 00:22:03,220
endless rumors maintained that the US

477
00:22:08,010 --> 00:22:05,710
government engaged in a pattern of

478
00:22:11,610 --> 00:22:08,020
covert behavior a better thought

479
00:22:12,210 --> 00:22:11,620
experiment on its own citizens preston

480
00:22:14,490 --> 00:22:12,220
nichols

481
00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:14,500
wrote a book all about it and working

482
00:22:19,410 --> 00:22:16,570
off of that book and the claims by

483
00:22:23,580 --> 00:22:19,420
nichols guarantee no runs us through how

484
00:22:27,300 --> 00:22:23,590
this project came to be the area in camp

485
00:22:30,210 --> 00:22:27,310
hero has a vast history that goes way

486
00:22:32,700 --> 00:22:30,220
back so the Revolutionary War before

487
00:22:34,710 --> 00:22:32,710
that and it's also the same location

488
00:22:36,570 --> 00:22:34,720
that just after the spanish-american war

489
00:22:39,090 --> 00:22:36,580
Theodore Roosevelt and the Rough Riders

490
00:22:40,710 --> 00:22:39,100
were kind of quarantined out there so

491
00:22:43,140 --> 00:22:40,720
there's always like activity out there

492
00:22:46,770 --> 00:22:43,150
later it becomes a place called fort

493
00:22:50,370 --> 00:22:46,780
hero and world war ii it's turned into

494
00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:50,380
the camp hero Air Force Station and so

495
00:22:55,950 --> 00:22:52,690
as we know in history this is the place

496
00:22:58,700 --> 00:22:55,960
where before satellite technology was

497
00:23:00,810 --> 00:22:58,710
established the sage radar tower

498
00:23:02,790 --> 00:23:00,820
semi-automatic ground environment radar

499
00:23:05,730 --> 00:23:02,800
tower that big iconic radar tower was

500
00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:05,740
built and designed and used for a

501
00:23:10,980 --> 00:23:08,170
variety of purposes detecting enemy

502
00:23:13,530 --> 00:23:10,990
ships they claim that their submarine

503
00:23:15,170 --> 00:23:13,540
bases underneath and I would of course

504
00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:15,180
believe it because it's just this giant

505
00:23:20,010 --> 00:23:18,010
stronghold it's on it it's on a cliff

506
00:23:21,990 --> 00:23:20,020
face in the Atlantic Ocean

507
00:23:24,360 --> 00:23:22,000
very furthest eastern tip of Long Island

508
00:23:27,410 --> 00:23:24,370
but where the weird stuff starts coming

509
00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:27,420
in is at the end of World War two

510
00:23:32,790 --> 00:23:29,770
Nuremberg trials you know there were a

511
00:23:34,380 --> 00:23:32,800
lot of people who were spared as spoils

512
00:23:38,310 --> 00:23:34,390
of war in regard to the United States

513
00:23:41,490 --> 00:23:38,320
absorbing these Nazi scientists into our

514
00:23:43,410 --> 00:23:41,500
into our military into our scientific

515
00:23:44,850 --> 00:23:43,420
and military development they were

516
00:23:47,250 --> 00:23:44,860
developing rockets and all sorts of

517
00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:47,260
crazy things for the Nazis so instead of

518
00:23:52,170 --> 00:23:49,810
hanging them we brought them over and

519
00:23:53,250 --> 00:23:52,180
this was called Operation Paperclip or

520
00:23:56,310 --> 00:23:53,260
Project Paperclip

521
00:23:58,680 --> 00:23:56,320
and it was those paperclip scientists

522
00:24:01,950 --> 00:23:58,690
that preston nichols and alfred Bielek

523
00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:01,960
claimed began the Montauk Project it all

524
00:24:06,090 --> 00:24:03,730
started at a place called Brookhaven

525
00:24:10,290 --> 00:24:06,100
National Labs which is a little further

526
00:24:12,390 --> 00:24:10,300
west of camp hero Air Force Station and

527
00:24:15,990 --> 00:24:12,400
according to Nichols he was eventually

528
00:24:18,690 --> 00:24:16,000
recruited by the the the Brookhaven

529
00:24:22,350 --> 00:24:18,700
National Labs because of his expertise

530
00:24:25,140 --> 00:24:22,360
and electronics and other reasons more

531
00:24:26,790 --> 00:24:25,150
or esoteric reasons like it the fact

532
00:24:29,190 --> 00:24:26,800
that he has psychic abilities the fact

533
00:24:31,710 --> 00:24:29,200
that he has you know this connection

534
00:24:34,530 --> 00:24:31,720
with certain energies so he claims and

535
00:24:36,780 --> 00:24:34,540
so he was recruited by the labs first

536
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:36,790
and then the Montauk Project came about

537
00:24:40,770 --> 00:24:38,890
because according to Nichols and and

538
00:24:42,980 --> 00:24:40,780
Bielek Congress had a big problem with

539
00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:42,990
eventually because we did kind of

540
00:24:48,210 --> 00:24:46,170
celebrate these Nazi scientists

541
00:24:51,420 --> 00:24:48,220
libraries named after than I think it

542
00:24:53,340 --> 00:24:51,430
and 11.5 um so Congress had an issue

543
00:24:55,710 --> 00:24:53,350
with these guys they got kicked out of

544
00:24:58,140 --> 00:24:55,720
Brookhaven National Labs and according

545
00:25:00,420 --> 00:24:58,150
to Nichols the skits kind of muddy but

546
00:25:02,820 --> 00:25:00,430
he said that they established the

547
00:25:05,820 --> 00:25:02,830
Montauk Project in a facility deep

548
00:25:07,770 --> 00:25:05,830
beneath the ground at Camp hero I'm not

549
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:07,780
sure what was embellished and what was

550
00:25:12,690 --> 00:25:10,210
it and I had I've had over a decade now

551
00:25:15,270 --> 00:25:12,700
on this subject matter so you know it

552
00:25:16,650 --> 00:25:15,280
begins with this very thin book which

553
00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:16,660
was that first book that Nichols

554
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:19,090
published with a very small bit of

555
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:21,970
information to go on I've since I feel

556
00:25:26,700 --> 00:25:24,970
between the dark files between speaking

557
00:25:28,050 --> 00:25:26,710
to these gentlemen for montar Chronicles

558
00:25:30,360 --> 00:25:28,060
and in my own personal research

559
00:25:32,250 --> 00:25:30,370
furthering you know everyday looking for

560
00:25:33,779 --> 00:25:32,260
things and it's talking to people that I

561
00:25:35,999 --> 00:25:33,789
did an interview for those those

562
00:25:38,070 --> 00:25:36,009
projects I feel like I found significant

563
00:25:40,469 --> 00:25:38,080
evidence that corroborates at least some

564
00:25:41,609 --> 00:25:40,479
of his story the more believable stuff

565
00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:41,619
though and I'm not saying I don't

566
00:25:46,349 --> 00:25:43,690
believe in time travel or I don't

567
00:25:48,239 --> 00:25:46,359
believe in extraterrestrial intelligence

568
00:25:52,649 --> 00:25:48,249
I'm just not sure all that happened they

569
00:25:54,330 --> 00:25:52,659
can't you know if any of our Preston

570
00:25:57,419 --> 00:25:54,340
Nichols and others have to say about

571
00:26:00,149 --> 00:25:57,429
camp hero is true this is far more

572
00:26:02,940 --> 00:26:00,159
disturbing than any threat in our skies

573
00:26:06,180 --> 00:26:02,950
by aerial phenomenon and this is one

574
00:26:07,739 --> 00:26:06,190
interview that shook me to the core if

575
00:26:11,099 --> 00:26:07,749
you haven't listened definitely check it

576
00:26:13,950 --> 00:26:11,109
out in the archives from documentaries

577
00:26:16,019 --> 00:26:13,960
and TV shows we move to the silver

578
00:26:18,509 --> 00:26:16,029
screen where I got to interview cinema

579
00:26:21,089 --> 00:26:18,519
studies professor and author Robby

580
00:26:23,430 --> 00:26:21,099
Graham about the intricate and intimate

581
00:26:25,499 --> 00:26:23,440
relationship between Hollywood and the

582
00:26:30,060 --> 00:26:25,509
military when it came to the topic of

583
00:26:32,489 --> 00:26:30,070
UFOs in episode 31 Graham uses a very

584
00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:32,499
well known alien film to back up his

585
00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:34,450
observations of this relationship

586
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:36,570
through the lens of the first

587
00:26:42,029 --> 00:26:40,330
independence day have a listen sometimes

588
00:26:44,190 --> 00:26:42,039
the military will approach filmmakers

589
00:26:46,369 --> 00:26:44,200
but usually it's the other way around

590
00:26:48,210 --> 00:26:46,379
film a call approach the military

591
00:26:50,430 --> 00:26:48,220
seeking their cooperation on a

592
00:26:52,229 --> 00:26:50,440
production in order to cut costs on that

593
00:26:53,969 --> 00:26:52,239
production so if you're making a war

594
00:26:57,509 --> 00:26:53,979
movie an action movie that requires

595
00:27:00,330 --> 00:26:57,519
tanks guns jets you know express troops

596
00:27:02,430 --> 00:27:00,340
then especially before the age of CGI

597
00:27:04,830 --> 00:27:02,440
the only way to create that really is

598
00:27:07,289 --> 00:27:04,840
through expensive props or to actually

599
00:27:09,060 --> 00:27:07,299
get the real stuff on screen with the

600
00:27:10,739 --> 00:27:09,070
help of the military and the military is

601
00:27:14,869 --> 00:27:10,749
only would only to willing to lend its

602
00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:14,879
toys to to Hollywood but it has to be

603
00:27:19,259 --> 00:27:18,129
mutually beneficial so the military the

604
00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:19,269
military will say look we'll give you

605
00:27:23,399 --> 00:27:21,129
our stuff if you sign a contract with us

606
00:27:26,609 --> 00:27:23,409
which enables us to oversee your

607
00:27:29,849 --> 00:27:26,619
production and we can alter as we see

608
00:27:32,609 --> 00:27:29,859
fit anything in your script that we

609
00:27:34,139 --> 00:27:32,619
deemed to be objectionable anything that

610
00:27:37,379 --> 00:27:34,149
paints the military in a negative light

611
00:27:39,450 --> 00:27:37,389
or anything that we don't agree with in

612
00:27:42,089 --> 00:27:39,460
terms of depictions of you know national

613
00:27:44,369 --> 00:27:42,099
security policy or etc etc they can

614
00:27:46,409 --> 00:27:44,379
change this and do in in Hollywood

615
00:27:47,550 --> 00:27:46,419
scripts and so what you have is is a

616
00:27:52,710 --> 00:27:47,560
sort

617
00:27:54,990 --> 00:27:52,720
a legal open form of propaganda and and

618
00:27:56,990 --> 00:27:55,000
it's all a okay and aboveboard but it's

619
00:27:59,370 --> 00:27:57,000
not really publicized too much you know

620
00:28:02,760 --> 00:27:59,380
and that relationship has been very

621
00:28:04,250 --> 00:28:02,770
healthy and ongoing for a long time in

622
00:28:06,710 --> 00:28:04,260
recent years what you've had is

623
00:28:08,910 --> 00:28:06,720
filmmakers becoming increasingly willing

624
00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:08,920
excuse me the Department of Defense

625
00:28:13,730 --> 00:28:10,450
becoming increasingly willing to work

626
00:28:16,860 --> 00:28:13,740
with UFO themed productions until the

627
00:28:18,690 --> 00:28:16,870
late 1990s that was not the case there

628
00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:18,700
had been a policy dating back to the

629
00:28:25,700 --> 00:28:21,850
1950s where the US government and

630
00:28:28,050 --> 00:28:25,710
military were very reluctant you know to

631
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:28,060
cooperate on any UFO theme productions

632
00:28:32,490 --> 00:28:30,970
in Hollywood and that was as a result of

633
00:28:35,370 --> 00:28:32,500
recommendations made by the Robertson

634
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:35,380
panel in 1953 who suggested that UFOs be

635
00:28:39,810 --> 00:28:36,970
debunked and demystified through media

636
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:39,820
channels and that did have an effect so

637
00:28:45,810 --> 00:28:42,730
so generally right through to the late

638
00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:45,820
1990s whenever a filmmaker approached a

639
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:47,770
branch of the government or military for

640
00:28:52,020 --> 00:28:49,450
cooperation on a UFO theme production

641
00:28:53,370 --> 00:28:52,030
the response was no we will not help you

642
00:28:55,470 --> 00:28:53,380
because UFOs don't exist and it

643
00:28:59,340 --> 00:28:55,480
contravenes our policy so so that was

644
00:29:00,600 --> 00:28:59,350
the policy but then in mid 1990s on the

645
00:29:02,250 --> 00:29:00,610
first Independence Day when the

646
00:29:04,590 --> 00:29:02,260
filmmakers Roland Emmerich and Dean

647
00:29:06,030 --> 00:29:04,600
Devlin approached the Department of

648
00:29:07,500 --> 00:29:06,040
Defense for their cooperation for

649
00:29:09,330 --> 00:29:07,510
obvious reasons the Department of

650
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:09,340
Defense said look we have all sorts of

651
00:29:14,700 --> 00:29:12,370
problems with your script but the the

652
00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:14,710
sticking points for us are that you

653
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:17,770
include area 51 as being central to the

654
00:29:21,210 --> 00:29:18,970
plot and you also make reference to the

655
00:29:23,550 --> 00:29:21,220
Roswell incident and you suggest that

656
00:29:25,770 --> 00:29:23,560
the president is has been kept in the

657
00:29:29,950 --> 00:29:27,940
why the hell wasn't I told about this

658
00:29:35,070 --> 00:29:29,960
place two words mr. president

659
00:29:41,850 --> 00:29:39,990
[Music]

660
00:29:43,410 --> 00:29:41,860
I don't understand where does all this

661
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:43,420
come from how do you get funding for

662
00:29:47,900 --> 00:29:45,610
something like this you don't actually

663
00:29:51,510 --> 00:29:47,910
think they spend $20,000 on a hammer

664
00:29:52,950 --> 00:29:51,520
$30,000 on a toilet seat that's

665
00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:52,960
obviously not the case you know these

666
00:29:55,950 --> 00:29:54,490
isn't this is this is what they said

667
00:29:57,870 --> 00:29:55,960
specifically in their in their script

668
00:29:59,970 --> 00:29:57,880
notes to the filmmakers and to their

669
00:30:01,080 --> 00:29:59,980
credit the filmmakers went their own way

670
00:30:02,370 --> 00:30:01,090
and they said look we can't take those

671
00:30:04,500 --> 00:30:02,380
things out of the script because they're

672
00:30:05,820 --> 00:30:04,510
central to it and we're gonna we're

673
00:30:07,770 --> 00:30:05,830
going to do it with CGI and that's what

674
00:30:10,620 --> 00:30:07,780
they did and then as a result of that I

675
00:30:12,510 --> 00:30:10,630
am convinced as a direct result of that

676
00:30:14,430 --> 00:30:12,520
the the Department of Defense recognized

677
00:30:17,310 --> 00:30:14,440
very quickly when they saw that that

678
00:30:19,020 --> 00:30:17,320
film became the most successful of 1996

679
00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:19,030
and one of the most successful of the

680
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:21,010
decade grossing over 800 million dollars

681
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:24,490
they realized oh my god we've made we've

682
00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:25,930
missed out on a huge opportunity here

683
00:30:29,460 --> 00:30:28,090
because had we given them as to put our

684
00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:29,470
support we would have had access to the

685
00:30:33,030 --> 00:30:31,570
script how do we access to the script we

686
00:30:35,670 --> 00:30:33,040
could have shaped the narrative in a way

687
00:30:37,710 --> 00:30:35,680
that serves us we could shape we could

688
00:30:39,420 --> 00:30:37,720
we could try and steer particular

689
00:30:41,670 --> 00:30:39,430
beliefs within the UFO conspiracy

690
00:30:44,370 --> 00:30:41,680
community we could you know we could

691
00:30:46,110 --> 00:30:44,380
better portray our own history with with

692
00:30:47,910 --> 00:30:46,120
relation to UFOs we could you know we

693
00:30:49,140 --> 00:30:47,920
could massage it as we see fit but

694
00:30:52,140 --> 00:30:49,150
because they denied their cooperation

695
00:30:54,390 --> 00:30:52,150
they lost that opportunity the marriage

696
00:30:56,870 --> 00:30:54,400
between Hollywood and strange topics

697
00:30:59,940 --> 00:30:56,880
like UFOs the supernatural and

698
00:31:02,130 --> 00:30:59,950
everything in between has never been as

699
00:31:05,730 --> 00:31:02,140
close than with my favorite television

700
00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:05,740
series of all time the x-files and I had

701
00:31:11,010 --> 00:31:08,050
the chance to speak with Dean Haglund

702
00:31:13,110 --> 00:31:11,020
in episode 39 you may remember him as

703
00:31:15,390 --> 00:31:13,120
the blond-haired conspiracy geek at

704
00:31:18,690 --> 00:31:15,400
Langley one of the members of the lone

705
00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:18,700
gunman Hagelin shared some insight and

706
00:31:23,670 --> 00:31:20,530
what he experienced in terms of how

707
00:31:27,530 --> 00:31:23,680
closely the show truly was - some

708
00:31:30,090 --> 00:31:27,540
real-life cases in the FBI and beyond I

709
00:31:32,220 --> 00:31:30,100
mean we all know you know sort of Dean

710
00:31:35,460 --> 00:31:32,230
at this point that the x-files did use a

711
00:31:38,370 --> 00:31:35,470
lot of actual case material or had

712
00:31:39,990 --> 00:31:38,380
people on set you know sort of advising

713
00:31:41,670 --> 00:31:40,000
in terms of when it came to how the

714
00:31:45,780 --> 00:31:41,680
military might have been involved with

715
00:31:48,150 --> 00:31:45,790
this or obviously the FBI right did you

716
00:31:51,570 --> 00:31:48,160
ever come across anything I guess while

717
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:51,580
filming or in the script or even with

718
00:31:54,970 --> 00:31:52,610
lone gunman

719
00:31:57,789 --> 00:31:54,980
in terms of that if you if like the

720
00:31:59,350 --> 00:31:57,799
conspiracy you know correlated a little

721
00:32:01,660 --> 00:31:59,360
too closely with what you guys were

722
00:32:05,140 --> 00:32:01,670
working on we all know the whole 911

723
00:32:07,450 --> 00:32:05,150
thing I know that's a great example

724
00:32:09,310 --> 00:32:07,460
absolute but but that was just I think

725
00:32:11,260 --> 00:32:09,320
that was a weird coincidence if you're

726
00:32:14,289 --> 00:32:11,270
saying that you know I've had

727
00:32:16,390 --> 00:32:14,299
like when I did when I still do stand-up

728
00:32:17,650 --> 00:32:16,400
but I was touring a lot while the show

729
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:17,660
was on the air and people would come to

730
00:32:23,260 --> 00:32:20,210
my comedy shows all around North America

731
00:32:26,890 --> 00:32:23,270
and after the shows sometimes there'd be

732
00:32:28,570 --> 00:32:26,900
like you know I work for the FBI do you

733
00:32:30,940 --> 00:32:28,580
want come by the office you know I went

734
00:32:33,580 --> 00:32:30,950
to the San Antonio office and got to sit

735
00:32:35,470 --> 00:32:33,590
in the head FBI or NOAA was in San

736
00:32:38,650 --> 00:32:35,480
Antonio was al Paso you know so there's

737
00:32:42,130 --> 00:32:38,660
pictures of me in Kevlar vests and in

738
00:32:44,620 --> 00:32:42,140
FBI stuff and and those guys would say

739
00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:44,630
so these stories particularly and they

740
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:46,130
would like say an episode stuff like

741
00:32:50,140 --> 00:32:47,690
that so where'd that information come

742
00:32:53,740 --> 00:32:50,150
from and then I go I'll and all the

743
00:32:55,870 --> 00:32:53,750
writers wrote it ah yeah okay and I go

744
00:32:57,549 --> 00:32:55,880
why is it closed well we can't say you

745
00:33:00,820 --> 00:32:57,559
so they would never tell me exactly what

746
00:33:02,950 --> 00:33:00,830
was co-relating so closely but they were

747
00:33:05,620 --> 00:33:02,960
curious enough to actually specify

748
00:33:08,710 --> 00:33:05,630
specific examples and specific episodes

749
00:33:13,900 --> 00:33:08,720
to go how did you get that information

750
00:33:17,230 --> 00:33:13,910
so either it is just luck of the writers

751
00:33:19,950 --> 00:33:17,240
or you know somehow some classified

752
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:19,960
information got onto the airwaves

753
00:33:26,140 --> 00:33:23,570
well the x-files fund did not stop there

754
00:33:29,830 --> 00:33:26,150
however in what many consider a new

755
00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:29,840
classic fan favorite the art of forehead

756
00:33:35,049 --> 00:33:32,570
sweat aired during the 11th and what

757
00:33:38,350 --> 00:33:35,059
many believed to be the last season ever

758
00:33:40,180 --> 00:33:38,360
of the x-files and the pivotal character

759
00:33:42,610 --> 00:33:40,190
driving this hilarious and a

760
00:33:45,220 --> 00:33:42,620
mind-bending episode was Reggie

761
00:33:47,590 --> 00:33:45,230
something literally that was his name

762
00:33:50,500 --> 00:33:47,600
and the name of the actor who played him

763
00:33:53,860 --> 00:33:50,510
may be familiar to many of you comedy

764
00:33:56,860 --> 00:33:53,870
buffs out there Brian Huskey join me for

765
00:33:59,289 --> 00:33:56,870
episode 42 while exploring the idea of

766
00:34:01,110 --> 00:33:59,299
the Mandela effect in which groups of

767
00:34:02,890 --> 00:34:01,120
people remember an alternate history

768
00:34:04,870 --> 00:34:02,900
Mulder and Scully

769
00:34:06,070 --> 00:34:04,880
discover how the x-files may have

770
00:34:08,020 --> 00:34:06,080
originated

771
00:34:09,970 --> 00:34:08,030
Huskies character Reggie something

772
00:34:13,060 --> 00:34:09,980
confronts Mulder Scully

773
00:34:16,419 --> 00:34:13,070
explaining that he may in fact not be a

774
00:34:18,490 --> 00:34:16,429
stranger but a third partner not only

775
00:34:21,070 --> 00:34:18,500
that but Reggie may hold the key to

776
00:34:22,870 --> 00:34:21,080
finding the truth to what is and always

777
00:34:25,150 --> 00:34:22,880
has been out there

778
00:34:27,790 --> 00:34:25,160
here Husky and I talked about the

779
00:34:28,780 --> 00:34:27,800
Mandela effect and we of course touch on

780
00:34:31,230 --> 00:34:28,790
the UFOs

781
00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:31,240
I think the Mandela effect is is

782
00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:34,610
plausible just in that memory and

783
00:34:41,470 --> 00:34:37,490
perspective is fallible and malleable

784
00:34:43,810 --> 00:34:41,480
and and people are far more honest a

785
00:34:46,419 --> 00:34:43,820
self-centered but your perspective on

786
00:34:49,630 --> 00:34:46,429
the universe is is your perspective yeah

787
00:34:52,030 --> 00:34:49,640
you can only your lens on what the world

788
00:34:54,820 --> 00:34:52,040
is and your experiences is always gonna

789
00:34:56,950 --> 00:34:54,830
be yourself so I think that's just

790
00:34:58,930 --> 00:34:56,960
inherently true I heard recently

791
00:35:01,000 --> 00:34:58,940
somebody said like you it's impossible

792
00:35:02,620 --> 00:35:01,010
to have sort of objectivity about

793
00:35:04,450 --> 00:35:02,630
yourself and I think that's true

794
00:35:06,820 --> 00:35:04,460
as you cuz even if he's like no I know

795
00:35:09,190 --> 00:35:06,830
myself like I know myself within the

796
00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:09,200
parameters of what I know about myself

797
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:11,330
I'm willing to admit it by myself I

798
00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:13,010
think I mean that's a prime example of

799
00:35:16,570 --> 00:35:14,210
you know I've heard you in other

800
00:35:19,450 --> 00:35:16,580
interviews say like oh I wouldn't do an

801
00:35:21,310 --> 00:35:19,460
audition and I I think I did horrible

802
00:35:23,260 --> 00:35:21,320
and then you know once later you say you

803
00:35:25,930 --> 00:35:23,270
were perfect for the role you got it

804
00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:25,940
like yeah that's a good example there of

805
00:35:30,550 --> 00:35:28,130
like looking outside of yourself you

806
00:35:32,710 --> 00:35:30,560
know we only see this 2d version of

807
00:35:34,630 --> 00:35:32,720
ourselves you do have to wonder yeah

808
00:35:37,540 --> 00:35:34,640
totally and I mean even in this episode

809
00:35:40,240 --> 00:35:37,550
it was so cool that you know supposedly

810
00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:40,250
your character created the x-files

811
00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:42,530
he got Mulder the I want to believe

812
00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:45,650
poster these were really interesting now

813
00:35:50,500 --> 00:35:48,050
these are episodes that x-files fans

814
00:35:52,810 --> 00:35:50,510
holds so close to their hearts these

815
00:35:55,450 --> 00:35:52,820
Darin Morgan episodes these even the

816
00:35:58,860 --> 00:35:55,460
pilot the pilot episode you are now a

817
00:36:01,150 --> 00:35:58,870
part of in the in this in this reality

818
00:36:03,820 --> 00:36:01,160
what was that like sort of going back

819
00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:03,830
and learning that you were going to be a

820
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:06,650
part of classic x-files up I mean even

821
00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:08,570
in the bigger picture like being a part

822
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:10,610
of a franchise that's been around for so

823
00:36:16,390 --> 00:36:14,330
long oh yeah I mean it's sort of above

824
00:36:19,220 --> 00:36:16,400
and beyond anything I could hope for

825
00:36:21,830 --> 00:36:19,230
because it's it's yeah

826
00:36:23,780 --> 00:36:21,840
sort of got like the episode buffet

827
00:36:25,910 --> 00:36:23,790
where he's like have at it you're gonna

828
00:36:28,849 --> 00:36:25,920
get to be in this and this reference

829
00:36:31,609 --> 00:36:28,859
this and it's funny like not that I

830
00:36:32,900 --> 00:36:31,619
looked at all but on Twitter there are a

831
00:36:34,820 --> 00:36:32,910
lot of people are just saying like you

832
00:36:38,090 --> 00:36:34,830
you know I got to sort of live the

833
00:36:40,250 --> 00:36:38,100
x-files dream of being in all these

834
00:36:42,349 --> 00:36:40,260
these episodes and commenting on them

835
00:36:43,910 --> 00:36:42,359
and yeah it's pretty it's pretty

836
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:43,920
phenomenal we'll get you back to that

837
00:36:48,109 --> 00:36:45,930
you know that idea of the truth I would

838
00:36:50,030 --> 00:36:48,119
not be doing my you full Hachiko work

839
00:36:53,210 --> 00:36:50,040
here right if I didn't ask you your

840
00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:53,220
personal thoughts about UFOs man what

841
00:36:57,470 --> 00:36:55,410
the phenomenon if there's aliens out

842
00:36:59,359 --> 00:36:57,480
there which sort of stake you put in

843
00:37:01,670 --> 00:36:59,369
these sort of things you know we talk

844
00:37:04,070 --> 00:37:01,680
about this every week on somewhere in

845
00:37:06,770 --> 00:37:04,080
the skies but for you someone coming in

846
00:37:08,390 --> 00:37:06,780
as an actor and doing this I would love

847
00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:08,400
to hear if you did any sort of research

848
00:37:13,190 --> 00:37:10,530
into this stuff or what your personal

849
00:37:16,070 --> 00:37:13,200
take on all of it is well you know I got

850
00:37:20,020 --> 00:37:16,080
people of Earth I did a little research

851
00:37:24,140 --> 00:37:20,030
on more more so on people who believe in

852
00:37:25,609 --> 00:37:24,150
UFOs and and in doing that just like I

853
00:37:27,470 --> 00:37:25,619
would sort of learned about like oh yeah

854
00:37:28,849 --> 00:37:27,480
here's the this was probable and this is

855
00:37:31,010 --> 00:37:28,859
this is possible but I was more

856
00:37:33,620 --> 00:37:31,020
interested in researching people that

857
00:37:35,060 --> 00:37:33,630
have that those beliefs and because

858
00:37:36,710 --> 00:37:35,070
that's what the shows about like people

859
00:37:38,570 --> 00:37:36,720
who believe in aliens that are sort of

860
00:37:41,390 --> 00:37:38,580
like have to have to have a therapy

861
00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:41,400
group just through today as a result but

862
00:37:47,870 --> 00:37:45,330
I I I've never been I here's my here's

863
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:47,880
my stance if we are the only life forms

864
00:37:52,580 --> 00:37:50,490
out there it's tragic

865
00:37:55,250 --> 00:37:52,590
you know because we I don't think we're

866
00:37:59,510 --> 00:37:55,260
doing a good job of it right now but the

867
00:38:01,490 --> 00:37:59,520
probability of that is is so small but I

868
00:38:04,609 --> 00:38:01,500
don't where I sort of like have a

869
00:38:06,710 --> 00:38:04,619
separation I was like I don't know if

870
00:38:09,500 --> 00:38:06,720
the technology exists where they could

871
00:38:11,870 --> 00:38:09,510
come to us and I say that only because I

872
00:38:14,720 --> 00:38:11,880
think I have maybe in comparison to the

873
00:38:17,180 --> 00:38:14,730
technology that is out there or to who

874
00:38:20,109 --> 00:38:17,190
knows like celestial awareness that's

875
00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:20,119
out there I think I have a very caveman

876
00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:22,770
perspective and sort of limitation as to

877
00:38:27,140 --> 00:38:24,570
what I can imagine that makes sense

878
00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:27,150
absolutely yeah yeah it really is the

879
00:38:30,830 --> 00:38:29,970
lens you look through it yeah yeah and

880
00:38:33,260 --> 00:38:30,840
you know going back

881
00:38:34,790 --> 00:38:33,270
to the episode is the kind of that Aaron

882
00:38:37,130 --> 00:38:34,800
Morgan episode is the kind of thing of

883
00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:37,140
like I'm gonna have I have my

884
00:38:43,460 --> 00:38:41,130
perspective on that truth based on the

885
00:38:45,590 --> 00:38:43,470
truth I have for myself and someone else

886
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:45,600
might have a very different truth based

887
00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:48,930
on encounters they might have had and so

888
00:38:54,620 --> 00:38:51,690
it's it's bridging the the willingness

889
00:38:57,770 --> 00:38:54,630
or the awareness openness I don't know

890
00:39:00,410 --> 00:38:57,780
what kind of Ness is gonna be to to to

891
00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:00,420
say like oh yeah now now now that is

892
00:39:04,430 --> 00:39:02,130
true now I have sort of proof of that

893
00:39:06,350 --> 00:39:04,440
and the thing I guess in doing my

894
00:39:08,990 --> 00:39:06,360
research the the thing that was very

895
00:39:10,430 --> 00:39:09,000
solidifying for me was I can't remember

896
00:39:13,910 --> 00:39:10,440
his name but there was a Harvard

897
00:39:16,910 --> 00:39:13,920
professor who did a lot of profiling of

898
00:39:21,470 --> 00:39:16,920
people who said they were under teas

899
00:39:23,990 --> 00:39:21,480
right John Mack yes John Mack and for

900
00:39:27,110 --> 00:39:24,000
him to sort of put himself out there you

901
00:39:29,930 --> 00:39:27,120
know as this esteemed institution and

902
00:39:31,130 --> 00:39:29,940
say like I think it's true I don't think

903
00:39:34,910 --> 00:39:31,140
these people are lying I think there's a

904
00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:34,920
consistency in the the narrative that

905
00:39:40,820 --> 00:39:38,570
they share and the sort of effect and

906
00:39:42,950 --> 00:39:40,830
usually again I'm gonna believe her so

907
00:39:45,110 --> 00:39:42,960
you know that that's that kind of thing

908
00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:45,120
like well science will prove it and that

909
00:39:52,700 --> 00:39:49,170
helped it and now we move right next

910
00:39:55,100 --> 00:39:52,710
door to episode 43 where my mentor Peter

911
00:39:58,130 --> 00:39:55,110
Robbins joined me to tell us the tragic

912
00:40:00,370 --> 00:39:58,140
and mysterious story behind the death of

913
00:40:05,300 --> 00:40:00,380
former Secretary of Defense James

914
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:05,310
Forrestal on May 22nd 1949 Forrestal

915
00:40:10,460 --> 00:40:08,010
fell to his death from the 16th floor of

916
00:40:13,670 --> 00:40:10,470
the Fez de Naval Hospital where he was

917
00:40:16,190 --> 00:40:13,680
treated for depression what many are not

918
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:16,200
aware of however is that Forrestal had

919
00:40:21,410 --> 00:40:18,170
been connected to the controversial

920
00:40:23,870 --> 00:40:21,420
mj-12 group an alleged secret committee

921
00:40:27,890 --> 00:40:23,880
of scientists military leaders and

922
00:40:30,260 --> 00:40:27,900
government officials formed in 1947 by

923
00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:30,270
an executive order by the u.s. President

924
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:32,970
Harry Truman to facilitate recovery and

925
00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:36,810
investigation of alien spacecraft

926
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:39,090
before his departure as Secretary of

927
00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:41,490
Defense Forrestal had a mental breakdown

928
00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:45,090
which ultimately led to his death but

929
00:40:50,060 --> 00:40:48,330
what did he know what was he told and

930
00:40:52,550 --> 00:40:50,070
what exactly happened to him in the

931
00:40:56,060 --> 00:40:52,560
hospital as he plunged downward into

932
00:40:57,740 --> 00:40:56,070
tragedy a questionable history the

933
00:41:00,230 --> 00:40:57,750
doctors assigned to his case were not

934
00:41:02,990 --> 00:41:00,240
cleared to know what he knew anything

935
00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:03,000
but and their commitment was only to

936
00:41:09,260 --> 00:41:06,090
restore him to good mental health period

937
00:41:11,330 --> 00:41:09,270
that ironic turn of events unfortunately

938
00:41:14,470 --> 00:41:11,340
sealed his fate and made it necessary

939
00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:14,480
for others to complete the job for him

940
00:41:19,430 --> 00:41:16,770
America's collective memory of their

941
00:41:21,140 --> 00:41:19,440
fallen hero lingered for a while though

942
00:41:24,260 --> 00:41:21,150
now to be linked forever with the

943
00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:24,270
tragedy of his combat fatigue induced

944
00:41:30,590 --> 00:41:27,810
suicide the implications of such a key

945
00:41:32,870 --> 00:41:30,600
player folding as Cold War realities

946
00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:32,880
deepened were not lost on anyone cleared

947
00:41:38,750 --> 00:41:35,010
to know the secrets that he knew and as

948
00:41:40,910 --> 00:41:38,760
the years then decades began to pass so

949
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:40,920
did the public's memory of the man who

950
00:41:46,970 --> 00:41:42,450
had been a patient at the Bethesda Naval

951
00:41:50,030 --> 00:41:46,980
facility in the spring of 1949 to that

952
00:41:51,530 --> 00:41:50,040
select group of men who held power in

953
00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:51,540
this country in the middle of the last

954
00:41:56,330 --> 00:41:52,170
century

955
00:41:58,760 --> 00:41:56,340
James forestalls mental collapse had to

956
00:42:01,700 --> 00:41:58,770
be treated as a priority national

957
00:42:04,070 --> 00:42:01,710
security matter the decision to force

958
00:42:07,580 --> 00:42:04,080
him out of that window was I am

959
00:42:10,100 --> 00:42:07,590
convinced in no way personal it's even

960
00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:10,110
likely that the men involved liked and

961
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:13,050
admired mr. Forrestal as an individual

962
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:16,290
his murder was simply the only way to

963
00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:18,930
resolve what this inner circle had come

964
00:42:22,090 --> 00:42:20,970
to perceive as a security risk of the

965
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:22,100
gravest nature

966
00:42:28,130 --> 00:42:25,290
despite his dedication love of country

967
00:42:30,620 --> 00:42:28,140
and tireless contributions to the safety

968
00:42:32,180 --> 00:42:30,630
and security of our nation the name and

969
00:42:34,850 --> 00:42:32,190
accomplishments of James Vincent

970
00:42:37,790 --> 00:42:34,860
Forrestal have effectively been written

971
00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:37,800
out of 20th century history and this

972
00:42:43,830 --> 00:42:39,570
oversight is something that should be

973
00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:47,200
this was a very heavy two-part series

974
00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:49,490
and I highly suggest you check them out

975
00:42:54,700 --> 00:42:52,130
in the archives for the full story it's

976
00:42:56,940 --> 00:42:54,710
a piece of both UFO in American history

977
00:42:59,020 --> 00:42:56,950
you won't soon forget

978
00:43:01,990 --> 00:42:59,030
for those who follow the show

979
00:43:04,150 --> 00:43:02,000
religiously you know that I take time to

980
00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:04,160
breathe every now and again and let the

981
00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:06,290
listeners take the wheel in what I call

982
00:43:11,410 --> 00:43:09,890
my witness accounts episodes these are

983
00:43:14,110 --> 00:43:11,420
where witnesses and experiencers

984
00:43:16,510 --> 00:43:14,120
recalled their own UFO events in their

985
00:43:19,090 --> 00:43:16,520
own words these are by far the most

986
00:43:20,950 --> 00:43:19,100
listened to and downloaded episodes of

987
00:43:21,430 --> 00:43:20,960
somewhere in the scales and with good

988
00:43:24,790 --> 00:43:21,440
reason

989
00:43:27,550 --> 00:43:24,800
it's you telling your stories and how it

990
00:43:30,550 --> 00:43:27,560
affected your lives no words I put

991
00:43:33,100 --> 00:43:30,560
together could ever do justice to the

992
00:43:36,010 --> 00:43:33,110
impact these events can have on a person

993
00:43:38,350 --> 00:43:36,020
so right now I'm going to share just one

994
00:43:43,300 --> 00:43:38,360
of those accounts that really stuck with

995
00:43:47,020 --> 00:43:43,310
me from episode 46 me and my wife were

996
00:43:51,240 --> 00:43:47,030
both musicians we were playing a gig

997
00:43:57,070 --> 00:43:51,250
that night out in the suburbs of Chicago

998
00:43:58,540 --> 00:43:57,080
and we were driving in that cake is

999
00:44:00,570 --> 00:43:58,550
probably around 5:00 6:00 in the

1000
00:44:03,280 --> 00:44:00,580
afternoon it was still daylight out and

1001
00:44:06,190 --> 00:44:03,290
if you ever lived it or have been to

1002
00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:06,200
Chicago you know that usually no matter

1003
00:44:12,570 --> 00:44:08,930
where you're driving there's a lot of

1004
00:44:15,700 --> 00:44:12,580
cars all around you and when we were

1005
00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:15,710
driving along I can't remember which

1006
00:44:23,560 --> 00:44:19,850
highway it was maybe highway 290 is

1007
00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:23,570
there to 90 or 295 I could or to 94 I

1008
00:44:28,930 --> 00:44:26,090
can't remember anyways it was pretty

1009
00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:28,940
much bumper-to-bumper traffic except the

1010
00:44:34,990 --> 00:44:31,610
traffic was flowing at about between 45

1011
00:44:36,230 --> 00:44:35,000
55 miles an hour and so it was a nice

1012
00:44:38,300 --> 00:44:36,240
steady flow

1013
00:44:39,829 --> 00:44:38,310
and we're driving I'm driving the car

1014
00:44:40,820 --> 00:44:39,839
this time of shooting my wife is in the

1015
00:44:44,359 --> 00:44:40,830
passenger seat

1016
00:44:50,780 --> 00:44:44,369
and I look up and ahead up in traffic

1017
00:44:52,820 --> 00:44:50,790
and I saw this black balloon descending

1018
00:44:56,030 --> 00:44:52,830
out of the air I had no idea where it

1019
00:44:58,839 --> 00:44:56,040
came from it was just you know I just

1020
00:45:03,310 --> 00:44:58,849
looked and it was just there and it's

1021
00:45:06,320 --> 00:45:03,320
descending towards traffic and I kind of

1022
00:45:10,010 --> 00:45:06,330
nudged my wife and said hey check out

1023
00:45:12,230 --> 00:45:10,020
that balloon up there in front of us I

1024
00:45:14,450 --> 00:45:12,240
don't know why I felt the urge tell her

1025
00:45:18,140 --> 00:45:14,460
about it but I just had this weird

1026
00:45:20,240 --> 00:45:18,150
feeling paddock and and she looked in

1027
00:45:22,700 --> 00:45:20,250
the sky goes oh that's just an airplane

1028
00:45:24,079 --> 00:45:22,710
and I go no no no not the airplane

1029
00:45:26,359 --> 00:45:24,089
because there was an airplane the sky

1030
00:45:28,970 --> 00:45:26,369
said the balloon out in front of us cuz

1031
00:45:30,770 --> 00:45:28,980
this balloon was descending towards

1032
00:45:32,359 --> 00:45:30,780
traffic and she saw it and she was like

1033
00:45:37,160 --> 00:45:32,369
oh well that's weird

1034
00:45:40,550 --> 00:45:37,170
and we're watching it and it's getting

1035
00:45:42,470 --> 00:45:40,560
close to the cars at this point and my

1036
00:45:44,359 --> 00:45:42,480
wife was like getting a little concerned

1037
00:45:48,829 --> 00:45:44,369
she's like oh no it's gonna go into

1038
00:45:50,450 --> 00:45:48,839
traffic and I said you know that's not a

1039
00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:50,460
big deal it's just a balloon you know

1040
00:45:54,099 --> 00:45:52,650
the wind from the traffic is gonna blow

1041
00:45:56,900 --> 00:45:54,109
it back up in the air and it's gonna

1042
00:46:00,530 --> 00:45:56,910
flip around and and do it's balloon

1043
00:46:05,150 --> 00:46:00,540
stuff not a big deal don't worry about

1044
00:46:07,700 --> 00:46:05,160
it so right when it's about to like hit

1045
00:46:10,310 --> 00:46:07,710
that point when it's about to you know

1046
00:46:15,130 --> 00:46:10,320
flip back up in the air I'd say were you

1047
00:46:19,359 --> 00:46:15,140
know good three to four cars or back

1048
00:46:22,180 --> 00:46:19,369
from this thing and we're both watching

1049
00:46:26,410 --> 00:46:22,190
it waiting for it to go back up in the

1050
00:46:30,849 --> 00:46:26,420
air except that's not what it did it

1051
00:46:35,140 --> 00:46:30,859
came down and went right above a car in

1052
00:46:38,620 --> 00:46:35,150
the far left lane and it stopped right

1053
00:46:41,710 --> 00:46:38,630
above the roof I mean like I mean maybe

1054
00:46:44,710 --> 00:46:41,720
a foot above the roof at the most two

1055
00:46:47,079 --> 00:46:44,720
feet maybe I don't know but not that far

1056
00:46:50,380 --> 00:46:47,089
from the roof and when it got that it

1057
00:46:51,789 --> 00:46:50,390
stopped in it like locked onto the car I

1058
00:46:56,229 --> 00:46:51,799
don't know how else to say it like it

1059
00:47:01,769 --> 00:46:56,239
started tailing the car okay and you

1060
00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:01,779
have to understand that all the wind in

1061
00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:05,210
everything did not affect this thing it

1062
00:47:12,130 --> 00:47:08,410
was like it was attached to some sort of

1063
00:47:14,799 --> 00:47:12,140
you know rod or something that would be

1064
00:47:17,259 --> 00:47:14,809
attached to the roof of the car that's

1065
00:47:20,079 --> 00:47:17,269
how still and how rain lined with this

1066
00:47:21,880 --> 00:47:20,089
car it was is just tailing it it was

1067
00:47:26,289 --> 00:47:21,890
matching its speed remember we're going

1068
00:47:29,170 --> 00:47:26,299
45 between 45 55 miles an hour and it

1069
00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:29,180
matched every movement of this car going

1070
00:47:37,599 --> 00:47:33,410
around the turns and right then I was

1071
00:47:40,359 --> 00:47:37,609
just like oh man what what the hell is

1072
00:47:42,940 --> 00:47:40,369
going on and then I watched it ascend

1073
00:47:46,870 --> 00:47:42,950
back up in the air but when it went back

1074
00:47:49,690 --> 00:47:46,880
up in the air it went straight up in the

1075
00:47:52,029 --> 00:47:49,700
air and it was still keeping pace with

1076
00:47:54,580 --> 00:47:52,039
the cars underneath it was still going

1077
00:47:58,000 --> 00:47:54,590
at the same speed

1078
00:48:01,210 --> 00:47:58,010
and going straight in the air I mean

1079
00:48:04,080 --> 00:48:01,220
straight no weeble wobbling or anything

1080
00:48:09,460 --> 00:48:04,090
like that and the wind didn't affect it

1081
00:48:12,910 --> 00:48:09,470
okay and it went to the right to the

1082
00:48:14,920 --> 00:48:12,920
next car over and then it descended

1083
00:48:17,950 --> 00:48:14,930
again and started tailing the next car

1084
00:48:20,470 --> 00:48:17,960
next to it the same thing as it was

1085
00:48:23,050 --> 00:48:20,480
doing the other car keeping pace with it

1086
00:48:26,610 --> 00:48:23,060
not moving not budging it just stayed

1087
00:48:30,640 --> 00:48:26,620
there and after it did that for a while

1088
00:48:32,980 --> 00:48:30,650
it rose back up in the air straight and

1089
00:48:36,010 --> 00:48:32,990
it kind of stopped tailing the car

1090
00:48:38,110 --> 00:48:36,020
meaning that like it stopped going 45 to

1091
00:48:41,170 --> 00:48:38,120
55 miles an hour it was like it was done

1092
00:48:43,420 --> 00:48:41,180
with it you know and stopped going with

1093
00:48:45,790 --> 00:48:43,430
the speed of traffic and at that point

1094
00:48:48,030 --> 00:48:45,800
when it was rising in the air we drove

1095
00:48:50,860 --> 00:48:48,040
right underneath it like directly

1096
00:48:55,230 --> 00:48:50,870
underneath it and me and my wife both

1097
00:49:00,640 --> 00:48:55,240
looked up in the air at it and I saw it

1098
00:49:04,150 --> 00:49:00,650
up close it wasn't this wasn't some

1099
00:49:08,020 --> 00:49:04,160
light in the sky thing this was in broad

1100
00:49:09,520 --> 00:49:08,030
daylight up close it was not that that

1101
00:49:12,600 --> 00:49:09,530
high above our car when we drove

1102
00:49:17,800 --> 00:49:12,610
underneath it and it was a solid black

1103
00:49:23,290 --> 00:49:17,810
ball round ball it was solid there's no

1104
00:49:27,280 --> 00:49:23,300
wings no exhaust no propellers nothing

1105
00:49:34,020 --> 00:49:27,290
no means of any propulsion on it

1106
00:49:39,970 --> 00:49:37,390
you job how does a solid round ball with

1107
00:49:44,130 --> 00:49:39,980
none of those features even do anything

1108
00:49:48,220 --> 00:49:44,140
let alone do and maneuver in the way

1109
00:49:51,280 --> 00:49:48,230
that it did without any kind of

1110
00:49:55,510 --> 00:49:51,290
turbulence or air or anything affecting

1111
00:49:59,670 --> 00:49:55,520
his movement like it was like it was I

1112
00:50:01,810 --> 00:49:59,680
don't know it was like outside of

1113
00:50:04,720 --> 00:50:01,820
everything you know I don't know how

1114
00:50:08,280 --> 00:50:04,730
else to say it kind of like you know

1115
00:50:12,340 --> 00:50:08,290
like you hear about maybe it was warping

1116
00:50:13,750 --> 00:50:12,350
the space-time or gravity around it or

1117
00:50:16,240 --> 00:50:13,760
something like that maybe there's some

1118
00:50:19,540 --> 00:50:16,250
sort of bubble it was in that everything

1119
00:50:25,180 --> 00:50:19,550
else just it didn't affect it I don't

1120
00:50:26,710 --> 00:50:25,190
know but I don't that's all I have to

1121
00:50:30,790 --> 00:50:26,720
say the only other thing I can think of

1122
00:50:33,880 --> 00:50:30,800
is if it was maybe some sort of mesh

1123
00:50:36,910 --> 00:50:33,890
material that was so woven so tightly

1124
00:50:39,850 --> 00:50:36,920
that it appeared like it was solid like

1125
00:50:41,230 --> 00:50:39,860
it was a solid black but even then that

1126
00:50:44,110 --> 00:50:41,240
still wouldn't be it wouldn't be able to

1127
00:50:45,610 --> 00:50:44,120
do what it did it wouldn't that that

1128
00:50:47,710 --> 00:50:45,620
wouldn't indicate maybe there were

1129
00:50:53,560 --> 00:50:47,720
propellers inside of it but like like if

1130
00:50:55,750 --> 00:50:53,570
it was mess a mesh wiring or or fabric

1131
00:50:58,150 --> 00:50:55,760
or whatever that was so tight that it

1132
00:51:02,350 --> 00:50:58,160
appears completely saw it and I mean a

1133
00:51:04,720 --> 00:51:02,360
solid black just a solid object that it

1134
00:51:06,640 --> 00:51:04,730
would there's no way that there's no way

1135
00:51:07,030 --> 00:51:06,650
it could do what it did you know what I

1136
00:51:08,870 --> 00:51:07,040
mean

1137
00:51:11,150 --> 00:51:08,880
there's no way

1138
00:51:13,819 --> 00:51:11,160
as we drove under it and was you know we

1139
00:51:15,559 --> 00:51:13,829
got past it and I really want I wish I

1140
00:51:17,569 --> 00:51:15,569
could have just kept looking at it but I

1141
00:51:20,450 --> 00:51:17,579
had to drive no I couldn't

1142
00:51:24,979 --> 00:51:20,460
wreck the car then I was just sitting

1143
00:51:25,700 --> 00:51:24,989
there thinking I didn't see that that

1144
00:51:28,370 --> 00:51:25,710
didn't happen

1145
00:51:30,079 --> 00:51:28,380
I was like trying oh I pretend like it

1146
00:51:32,509 --> 00:51:30,089
didn't happen and then I looked at my

1147
00:51:33,890 --> 00:51:32,519
wife and she started screaming and gone

1148
00:51:37,729 --> 00:51:33,900
what the hell was that

1149
00:51:39,859 --> 00:51:37,739
uh-huh and just yelling at me and that

1150
00:51:42,469 --> 00:51:39,869
was when I was like okay I did see that

1151
00:51:49,400 --> 00:51:42,479
I'm not making that up that just

1152
00:51:52,719 --> 00:51:49,410
happened and we went to the gig and we

1153
00:51:55,400 --> 00:51:52,729
went one of my my other band mates and

1154
00:51:57,799 --> 00:51:55,410
good friend of ours was there and we

1155
00:51:59,599 --> 00:51:57,809
looked at him where we go we think we

1156
00:52:01,339 --> 00:51:59,609
just saw ufr on our way here

1157
00:52:04,700 --> 00:52:01,349
and he just kind of looked at us and

1158
00:52:07,789 --> 00:52:04,710
smiled and gave a little laugh and that

1159
00:52:09,650 --> 00:52:07,799
was it we just didn't talk about it

1160
00:52:13,599 --> 00:52:09,660
after that and we went on of her night

1161
00:52:17,959 --> 00:52:13,609
plates gig had a good time and then

1162
00:52:21,650 --> 00:52:17,969
afterwards got on the internet you know

1163
00:52:25,940 --> 00:52:21,660
to try and I just did a search for you

1164
00:52:31,130 --> 00:52:25,950
know circle drones or spheric miracle

1165
00:52:32,959 --> 00:52:31,140
drones and I found a video of the other

1166
00:52:35,719 --> 00:52:32,969
thing that the Japanese government made

1167
00:52:39,200 --> 00:52:35,729
to sort of drone that they made where it

1168
00:52:41,630 --> 00:52:39,210
was a circle but it was a wire frame

1169
00:52:43,999 --> 00:52:41,640
like you could see the propellers in the

1170
00:52:45,319 --> 00:52:44,009
in the the different like little wings

1171
00:52:47,539 --> 00:52:45,329
and things that help it move around

1172
00:52:51,469 --> 00:52:47,549
inside you could see the inner mechanics

1173
00:52:54,880 --> 00:52:51,479
of it it was not not the same thing as I

1174
00:52:57,829 --> 00:52:54,890
saw there it wasn't solid at all it was

1175
00:53:00,440 --> 00:52:57,839
wide and open it was just like if I

1176
00:53:02,170 --> 00:53:00,450
remember correctly it was just like twos

1177
00:53:06,519 --> 00:53:02,180
like circle

1178
00:53:08,980 --> 00:53:06,529
rims it was an open thing it wasn't

1179
00:53:11,140 --> 00:53:08,990
solid black and I like I said I could

1180
00:53:17,650 --> 00:53:11,150
see the propellers in it and this thing

1181
00:53:20,260 --> 00:53:17,660
moved very very similar to what we saw

1182
00:53:22,569 --> 00:53:20,270
it was the closest representation that I

1183
00:53:25,359 --> 00:53:22,579
could see a tell kind of show someone

1184
00:53:27,970 --> 00:53:25,369
liked what we saw but it wasn't that

1185
00:53:30,010 --> 00:53:27,980
drone there was a little bit you know

1186
00:53:33,309 --> 00:53:30,020
you could tell that this drone still

1187
00:53:34,839 --> 00:53:33,319
like it's it's like helicopter or any

1188
00:53:37,240 --> 00:53:34,849
other kind of propeller type of

1189
00:53:39,789 --> 00:53:37,250
mechanism that has to obey but the laws

1190
00:53:41,650 --> 00:53:39,799
of physics you know like there's little

1191
00:53:43,450 --> 00:53:41,660
Bob's and weaves in the way that it

1192
00:53:45,579 --> 00:53:43,460
moves it can't just go straight up and

1193
00:53:47,650 --> 00:53:45,589
over and down like the thing that I saw

1194
00:53:49,720 --> 00:53:47,660
moved it was moving in straight lines

1195
00:53:54,269 --> 00:53:49,730
direct straight lines there was no kind

1196
00:53:57,720 --> 00:53:54,279
of I don't know how I'll describe it so

1197
00:53:59,920 --> 00:53:57,730
that's the only anything that can find

1198
00:54:04,240 --> 00:53:59,930
remotely close to it and like I said it

1199
00:54:07,269 --> 00:54:04,250
wasn't it um a couple other things that

1200
00:54:11,289 --> 00:54:07,279
happens we we reported it to the police

1201
00:54:14,980 --> 00:54:11,299
we called the police and they got mad at

1202
00:54:18,760 --> 00:54:14,990
us we tried to be completely honest with

1203
00:54:22,089 --> 00:54:18,770
them but they thought we were trying to

1204
00:54:25,660 --> 00:54:22,099
pull a prank on him and they scolded us

1205
00:54:27,309 --> 00:54:25,670
a bit and they said to us sir there are

1206
00:54:28,750 --> 00:54:27,319
things that we do that protect you that

1207
00:54:33,010 --> 00:54:28,760
you don't know about and all this stuff

1208
00:54:37,720 --> 00:54:33,020
and I was kind of like yeah but not this

1209
00:54:42,279 --> 00:54:37,730
and you know that went nowhere I even

1210
00:54:44,440 --> 00:54:42,289
made a report to MUFON and they I don't

1211
00:54:46,620 --> 00:54:44,450
know what I was expecting really to get

1212
00:54:51,760 --> 00:54:46,630
from him they're pretty worthless

1213
00:54:54,160 --> 00:54:51,770
because I I gave a road out of report

1214
00:54:57,800 --> 00:54:54,170
form and I got an investigator guy and I

1215
00:54:59,840 --> 00:54:57,810
told the story just like I told you even

1216
00:55:02,180 --> 00:54:59,850
like in the beginning I said I thought

1217
00:55:03,920 --> 00:55:02,190
it was a black balloon at first until it

1218
00:55:06,020 --> 00:55:03,930
moved this way then obviously it wasn't

1219
00:55:08,150 --> 00:55:06,030
a black bloom and the only response I

1220
00:55:12,800 --> 00:55:08,160
got back from the guy was oh it must

1221
00:55:15,080 --> 00:55:12,810
have been a black balloon so I pretty

1222
00:55:17,240 --> 00:55:15,090
much wrote him back and I I don't think

1223
00:55:19,820 --> 00:55:17,250
I was very nice I tried to be nice but I

1224
00:55:22,360 --> 00:55:19,830
was like listen buddy you're you're

1225
00:55:26,060 --> 00:55:22,370
worthless so just forget about it

1226
00:55:32,890 --> 00:55:26,070
basically you know I feel bad from kind

1227
00:55:36,320 --> 00:55:32,900
of being rude but I was just frustrated

1228
00:55:38,450 --> 00:55:36,330
and that's pretty much it all as I know

1229
00:55:40,520 --> 00:55:38,460
is I witnessed the technology that did

1230
00:55:45,020 --> 00:55:40,530
operate it in a way that it shouldn't

1231
00:55:47,540 --> 00:55:45,030
have operated it's a technology that to

1232
00:55:51,410 --> 00:55:47,550
me from my limited understanding to

1233
00:55:53,030 --> 00:55:51,420
fight the laws of physics well let me

1234
00:55:56,330 --> 00:55:53,040
say it defied our current understanding

1235
00:55:58,340 --> 00:55:56,340
of physics I should say or at least

1236
00:56:03,440 --> 00:55:58,350
there's more to the picture than we know

1237
00:56:05,910 --> 00:56:03,450
obviously and from that point on I had

1238
00:56:08,640 --> 00:56:05,920
to face the fact that

1239
00:56:12,990 --> 00:56:08,650
that there's stuff out there that we

1240
00:56:16,530 --> 00:56:13,000
don't know about that that we call UFO

1241
00:56:20,820 --> 00:56:16,540
their inner sky and they can do things

1242
00:56:22,890 --> 00:56:20,830
that our technology can and I don't know

1243
00:56:25,800 --> 00:56:22,900
that's enough for me too

1244
00:56:28,410 --> 00:56:25,810
you know I don't know who's flying then

1245
00:56:31,560 --> 00:56:28,420
I don't know where it came from

1246
00:56:37,050 --> 00:56:31,570
but it's not hard to extrapolate from

1247
00:56:41,070 --> 00:56:37,060
what I do know for a fact although it's

1248
00:56:44,670 --> 00:56:41,080
not definitive that I will be correct on

1249
00:56:46,740 --> 00:56:44,680
what I think it may or may not be but we

1250
00:56:50,700 --> 00:56:46,750
can I think I can safely say it's pretty

1251
00:56:53,670 --> 00:56:50,710
exotic whatever it is and whoever is

1252
00:56:56,700 --> 00:56:53,680
controlling it and made it it was able

1253
00:57:02,400 --> 00:56:56,710
to do those things it's also probably

1254
00:57:06,600 --> 00:57:02,410
pretty exotic so you know the world just

1255
00:57:12,450 --> 00:57:06,610
became a really strange place so that's

1256
00:57:14,880 --> 00:57:12,460
my experience with the black ball it's

1257
00:57:17,400 --> 00:57:14,890
obvious that this man was shaken up by

1258
00:57:18,960 --> 00:57:17,410
this and I thank him and the many others

1259
00:57:20,760 --> 00:57:18,970
who have come forward and felt

1260
00:57:23,430 --> 00:57:20,770
comfortable enough sharing their

1261
00:57:25,380 --> 00:57:23,440
personal UFO stories with me and the

1262
00:57:27,810 --> 00:57:25,390
thousands of people who tuned in every

1263
00:57:30,210 --> 00:57:27,820
week if you would like to share your

1264
00:57:32,790 --> 00:57:30,220
story I'm always looking to do more

1265
00:57:34,860 --> 00:57:32,800
witness account episodes the more people

1266
00:57:38,160 --> 00:57:34,870
that come forward the more we normalize

1267
00:57:41,790 --> 00:57:38,170
this topic and shed that omnipresent

1268
00:57:43,950 --> 00:57:41,800
ridicule factor so reach out to me on my

1269
00:57:45,420 --> 00:57:43,960
socials or through the website if you'd

1270
00:57:50,010 --> 00:57:45,430
like to be featured in an upcoming

1271
00:57:52,320 --> 00:57:50,020
episode of witness accounts all right we

1272
00:57:56,070 --> 00:57:52,330
have hit the halfway mark with episode

1273
00:57:58,290 --> 00:57:56,080
15 with an interview I will never forget

1274
00:58:00,960 --> 00:57:58,300
and one of my proudest moments here on

1275
00:58:03,690 --> 00:58:00,970
someone the skies I had the amazing

1276
00:58:06,870 --> 00:58:03,700
opportunity to interview who many

1277
00:58:07,350 --> 00:58:06,880
consider the Dean of ufology that's

1278
00:58:09,280 --> 00:58:07,360
right

1279
00:58:11,860 --> 00:58:09,290
nuclear physicist Stanton

1280
00:58:14,170 --> 00:58:11,870
- frightening with the recent

1281
00:58:16,300 --> 00:58:14,180
announcement of his retirement from the

1282
00:58:19,210 --> 00:58:16,310
UFO field stefan brought us on the

1283
00:58:22,720 --> 00:58:19,220
journey spanning 40 years of memories

1284
00:58:25,000 --> 00:58:22,730
experiences and theories and he sets the

1285
00:58:28,350 --> 00:58:25,010
record straight once and for all -

1286
00:58:30,100 --> 00:58:28,360
thoughts on the infamous mj-12 documents

1287
00:58:32,200 --> 00:58:30,110
check this out

1288
00:58:34,660 --> 00:58:32,210
this is a big part of the roswell case

1289
00:58:36,970 --> 00:58:34,670
as well is another thing that you you

1290
00:58:38,140 --> 00:58:36,980
worked with and investigated and I'd

1291
00:58:39,640 --> 00:58:38,150
really love to hear your thoughts and

1292
00:58:42,730 --> 00:58:39,650
where you stand on this now it's the

1293
00:58:45,340 --> 00:58:42,740
mj-12 documents now we've had so many

1294
00:58:46,660 --> 00:58:45,350
people argue this for so many years but

1295
00:58:49,060 --> 00:58:46,670
you wrote one of the most definitive

1296
00:58:52,600 --> 00:58:49,070
books on these documents I'd love to

1297
00:58:54,490 --> 00:58:52,610
hear you know now in 2018 what is your

1298
00:58:56,650 --> 00:58:54,500
stance on these documents how much is

1299
00:58:59,590 --> 00:58:56,660
real how much is baloney well where do

1300
00:59:02,020 --> 00:58:59,600
you stand on that most of the mj-12

1301
00:59:03,760 --> 00:59:02,030
documents are phony okay that's true

1302
00:59:05,860 --> 00:59:03,770
most isotopes aren't fissionable either

1303
00:59:07,600 --> 00:59:05,870
you know like it or not most people

1304
00:59:10,390 --> 00:59:07,610
can't run a mile in four minutes

1305
00:59:14,290 --> 00:59:10,400
nobody can so there are at least three

1306
00:59:17,350 --> 00:59:14,300
documents that I believe are genuine the

1307
00:59:20,680 --> 00:59:17,360
Eisenhower briefing document the Cutler

1308
00:59:22,810 --> 00:59:20,690
twining memo there's another one which

1309
00:59:26,230 --> 00:59:22,820
doesn't come to mind at the moment and

1310
00:59:28,900 --> 00:59:26,240
as proof tells you something about

1311
00:59:32,200 --> 00:59:28,910
research in the field sort of class it

1312
00:59:33,730 --> 00:59:32,210
was mr. Noyes e- s himself an avionics

1313
00:59:36,310 --> 00:59:33,740
editor for Aviation Week and space

1314
00:59:39,520 --> 00:59:36,320
technology no flying saucers are really

1315
00:59:41,800 --> 00:59:39,530
inspiration and he challenged me on

1316
00:59:43,960 --> 00:59:41,810
those documents the Cutler tiny would

1317
00:59:45,850 --> 00:59:43,970
come whole in particular obviously the

1318
00:59:47,830 --> 00:59:45,860
memos are fraud because it's done in the

1319
00:59:49,960 --> 00:59:47,840
large Piko type but I've got nine

1320
00:59:51,730 --> 00:59:49,970
documents here done from the National

1321
00:59:54,730 --> 00:59:51,740
Security Council which name is at the

1322
00:59:56,680 --> 00:59:54,740
time and they're all done in a leap time

1323
00:59:59,320 --> 00:59:56,690
so I challenge you to find any other

1324
01:00:01,690 --> 00:59:59,330
genuine documents found in the same size

1325
01:00:05,080 --> 01:00:01,700
and style type and I'll give you $100

1326
01:00:07,690 --> 01:00:05,090
each up to a maximum of ten he did this

1327
01:00:11,140 --> 01:00:07,700
rather publicly and you have 60 days

1328
01:00:14,110 --> 01:00:11,150
well okay I immediately went to my files

1329
01:00:15,760 --> 01:00:14,120
and unlike I turned out I didn't know

1330
01:00:17,860 --> 01:00:15,770
this at the time turned out and fill it

1331
01:00:20,380 --> 01:00:17,870
never been in the Eisenhower library or

1332
01:00:22,410 --> 01:00:20,390
the Truman library and I spent weeks and

1333
01:00:25,319 --> 01:00:22,420
I immediately went to my files and

1334
01:00:27,480 --> 01:00:25,329
had 20 pages done on the same size and

1335
01:00:31,890 --> 01:00:27,490
style type they didn't meet all this

1336
01:00:34,130 --> 01:00:31,900
criteria but time frame etc so I was

1337
01:00:36,809 --> 01:00:34,140
going to the eyes in our library and

1338
01:00:38,460 --> 01:00:36,819
might as well check us when I went there

1339
01:00:40,170 --> 01:00:38,470
it's easy to spot the difference because

1340
01:00:42,359 --> 01:00:40,180
one type is much bigger than the other

1341
01:00:44,640 --> 01:00:42,369
one time price and so I made copies of

1342
01:00:46,650 --> 01:00:44,650
14 documents no doubt about there being

1343
01:00:49,950 --> 01:00:46,660
genuine I found them at the Eisenhart

1344
01:00:52,890 --> 01:00:49,960
library and made copies of all of them

1345
01:00:55,980 --> 01:00:52,900
sent him the copies and editing an

1346
01:00:59,039 --> 01:00:55,990
invoice for a thousand dollars he would

1347
01:01:00,750 --> 01:00:59,049
only pay me for 10 C and he paid me and

1348
01:01:05,240 --> 01:01:00,760
then he got murdered in hell when I

1349
01:01:09,630 --> 01:01:05,250
included a copy of his check in my face

1350
01:01:11,490 --> 01:01:09,640
the audience loves it yeah yeah but you

1351
01:01:13,950 --> 01:01:11,500
know it's typical of the intellectual

1352
01:01:16,470 --> 01:01:13,960
bankruptcy of the pseudoscience of anti

1353
01:01:18,960 --> 01:01:16,480
apology don't bother me with the facts

1354
01:01:21,690 --> 01:01:18,970
my mind's made up and it's such a

1355
01:01:24,299 --> 01:01:21,700
splendid example but he had never been

1356
01:01:27,480 --> 01:01:24,309
to the library and it turns out they

1357
01:01:29,039 --> 01:01:27,490
have like 250 thousand pages of NSC

1358
01:01:32,520 --> 01:01:29,049
documents and you tell me they're all

1359
01:01:33,930 --> 01:01:32,530
typed on the same typewriter I hope

1360
01:01:37,549 --> 01:01:33,940
people recall and we used to use

1361
01:01:40,500 --> 01:01:37,559
typewriters before computers were around

1362
01:01:42,660 --> 01:01:40,510
while the mj-12 documents in other words

1363
01:01:45,329 --> 01:01:42,670
I'm convinced I did rather extensive

1364
01:01:48,450 --> 01:01:45,339
work on the twelve members of the group

1365
01:01:51,420 --> 01:01:48,460
and I'm especially proud of my discovery

1366
01:01:53,880 --> 01:01:51,430
to my total surprise I will admit that

1367
01:01:56,339 --> 01:01:53,890
one of the members was dr. Donald Howard

1368
01:01:58,799 --> 01:01:56,349
Menzel and he was a debunker he written

1369
01:02:00,480 --> 01:01:58,809
three anti UFO books how could he be

1370
01:02:02,490 --> 01:02:00,490
member of a group that knew about crash

1371
01:02:04,410 --> 01:02:02,500
saucers alien parties all that sort of

1372
01:02:07,440 --> 01:02:04,420
stuff well I saw a mention of his name

1373
01:02:09,390 --> 01:02:07,450
and knock document in the men of our

1374
01:02:10,859 --> 01:02:09,400
Bush files he was the chief science

1375
01:02:14,280 --> 01:02:10,869
advisor in the United States in this

1376
01:02:16,559 --> 01:02:14,290
timeframe outstanding individual and so

1377
01:02:17,700 --> 01:02:16,569
I followed up on that and having a

1378
01:02:19,950 --> 01:02:17,710
permission from three different people

1379
01:02:23,549 --> 01:02:19,960
look at his papers at Harvard the Center

1380
01:02:26,430 --> 01:02:23,559
for UFO said no UFO whatever the name of

1381
01:02:28,650 --> 01:02:26,440
the group was at that time I got a

1382
01:02:30,270 --> 01:02:28,660
research grant and I went to the Harvard

1383
01:02:32,220 --> 01:02:30,280
archives after getting permission

1384
01:02:34,000 --> 01:02:32,230
operator from people to see his papers

1385
01:02:36,550 --> 01:02:34,010
written permission

1386
01:02:38,830 --> 01:02:36,560
the knack but anyway I didn't know what

1387
01:02:42,670 --> 01:02:38,840
I was looking for let's see when we find

1388
01:02:43,750 --> 01:02:42,680
him it there was a JFK file wow that

1389
01:02:45,970 --> 01:02:43,760
should be interesting

1390
01:02:47,770 --> 01:02:45,980
it was UFO papers were elsewhere there's

1391
01:02:50,590 --> 01:02:47,780
and I've been there too Cathy and I've

1392
01:02:53,950 --> 01:02:50,600
gone to the archives Erin philosophical

1393
01:02:55,990 --> 01:02:53,960
Society library has his papers and also

1394
01:02:58,120 --> 01:02:56,000
have this class's papers until right

1395
01:03:00,730 --> 01:02:58,130
anyway and one of the first things I

1396
01:03:03,640 --> 01:03:00,740
opened up in the JFK files there's a

1397
01:03:05,620 --> 01:03:03,650
letter from mental to Kennedy

1398
01:03:07,240 --> 01:03:05,630
dear jack turns out they knew each other

1399
01:03:10,120 --> 01:03:07,250
quite well even had breakfast together

1400
01:03:13,210 --> 01:03:10,130
on occasion both living in the Cambridge

1401
01:03:15,580 --> 01:03:13,220
area and there's one area this is after

1402
01:03:17,770 --> 01:03:15,590
the election of 1960 when Kennedy was

1403
01:03:20,230 --> 01:03:17,780
elected president there's one where I

1404
01:03:23,080 --> 01:03:20,240
may be of assistance to you it's with

1405
01:03:25,990 --> 01:03:23,090
regard to the National Security Agency

1406
01:03:29,080 --> 01:03:26,000
have had a longer continuous association

1407
01:03:31,180 --> 01:03:29,090
with them 30 years of anybody when we

1408
01:03:33,340 --> 01:03:31,190
are properly cleared to each other this

1409
01:03:34,720 --> 01:03:33,350
is telling the president we're probably

1410
01:03:38,020 --> 01:03:34,730
clear to me each other I can tell you

1411
01:03:40,060 --> 01:03:38,030
more about this so I did a lot it turns

1412
01:03:42,670 --> 01:03:40,070
out he was a world-class cryptologist

1413
01:03:45,250 --> 01:03:42,680
nobody knew that he did all kinds of

1414
01:03:47,410 --> 01:03:45,260
classified work and I was the first to

1415
01:03:49,210 --> 01:03:47,420
take note of that and so suddenly it

1416
01:03:51,070 --> 01:03:49,220
made sense that he was part of this

1417
01:03:52,330 --> 01:03:51,080
group but it was such a shock and there

1418
01:03:54,040 --> 01:03:52,340
were people say oh he couldn't lead a

1419
01:03:55,060 --> 01:03:54,050
double life I wrote a paper the double

1420
01:03:58,060 --> 01:03:55,070
life of Donald Menzel

1421
01:04:00,070 --> 01:03:58,070
lots of people who led double life think

1422
01:04:01,840 --> 01:04:00,080
of Burgess filming and McQueen and

1423
01:04:06,580 --> 01:04:01,850
Russian spies work for British

1424
01:04:09,430 --> 01:04:06,590
intelligence like 15 years yeah and

1425
01:04:13,060 --> 01:04:09,440
you've got to be very careful when

1426
01:04:15,250 --> 01:04:13,070
you're a spy that you don't reveal you

1427
01:04:18,460 --> 01:04:15,260
know you're having access to information

1428
01:04:20,740 --> 01:04:18,470
you shouldn't have accessed but once I

1429
01:04:23,440 --> 01:04:20,750
found Menzel and then saw the connection

1430
01:04:25,720 --> 01:04:23,450
with the other people I was able to show

1431
01:04:28,080 --> 01:04:25,730
what it made absolute sense and the post

1432
01:04:30,880 --> 01:04:28,090
three documents and class paying me

1433
01:04:33,550 --> 01:04:30,890
$1,000 didn't heard any in terms of the

1434
01:04:36,130 --> 01:04:33,560
overall picture and so I think I've

1435
01:04:37,720 --> 01:04:36,140
dealt with all the arguments but the

1436
01:04:41,109 --> 01:04:37,730
people say the documents are fraudulent

1437
01:04:44,230 --> 01:04:41,119
yes I showed that a number of documents

1438
01:04:46,540 --> 01:04:44,240
are fraudulent so what I'm not denying

1439
01:04:47,720 --> 01:04:46,550
that it be natural if some good stuff

1440
01:04:50,770 --> 01:04:47,730
gets out you flood

1441
01:04:54,290 --> 01:04:50,780
market with crap and I hope and rubs off

1442
01:04:56,510 --> 01:04:54,300
that interview was a true honor and if

1443
01:04:58,609 --> 01:04:56,520
Stanton Friedman is done lecturing he

1444
01:05:00,740 --> 01:04:58,619
most definitely is not done searching

1445
01:05:02,990 --> 01:05:00,750
for answers somewhere in the skies and

1446
01:05:06,830 --> 01:05:03,000
I'm wishing him all the very best on

1447
01:05:09,830 --> 01:05:06,840
that continued journey alright so for

1448
01:05:12,590 --> 01:05:09,840
this next one I and my guest let loose

1449
01:05:15,710 --> 01:05:12,600
and have some beers and talk to UFOs in

1450
01:05:18,830 --> 01:05:15,720
another fan favorite series I call UFO

1451
01:05:21,620 --> 01:05:18,840
happy hour this is where I bring on UFO

1452
01:05:25,640 --> 01:05:21,630
researchers buried guests and other

1453
01:05:29,000 --> 01:05:25,650
podcasters and I'd get them drunk and we

1454
01:05:32,120 --> 01:05:29,010
have an uncensored bar stool chat in

1455
01:05:34,730 --> 01:05:32,130
episode 68 Rob Kristofferson of the our

1456
01:05:37,130 --> 01:05:34,740
strange skies podcast joins me to

1457
01:05:39,109 --> 01:05:37,140
recount one of his all-time favorite UFO

1458
01:05:42,710 --> 01:05:39,119
cases that involved a close encounter

1459
01:05:48,200 --> 01:05:42,720
with aliens and their breakfast baking

1460
01:05:49,640 --> 01:05:48,210
abilities pancake aliens oh man like you

1461
01:05:52,940 --> 01:05:49,650
know I don't I don't like to prejudge

1462
01:05:57,290 --> 01:05:52,950
people but if if some Italians gave me

1463
01:06:01,790 --> 01:05:57,300
some some pancakes you know that that

1464
01:06:03,620 --> 01:06:01,800
case is so crazy and I mean like it

1465
01:06:06,470 --> 01:06:03,630
occurred the same year that Betty and

1466
01:06:09,770 --> 01:06:06,480
Barney Hill abduction did for all of you

1467
01:06:13,010 --> 01:06:09,780
know and here's the thing 62 year old

1468
01:06:14,720 --> 01:06:13,020
chicken farmer sitting down to brunch at

1469
01:06:17,630 --> 01:06:14,730
11 o'clock in the morning hears this

1470
01:06:20,950 --> 01:06:17,640
sound and he goes outside he sees this

1471
01:06:25,130 --> 01:06:20,960
yeah this it would probably be like

1472
01:06:28,430 --> 01:06:25,140
saucer - he described the UFO as -

1473
01:06:30,560 --> 01:06:28,440
saucers connected by a depression ring

1474
01:06:32,690 --> 01:06:30,570
that had like these six-inch diameter

1475
01:06:36,020 --> 01:06:32,700
pipes that were going all around it and

1476
01:06:38,450 --> 01:06:36,030
this hatch opens and he sees what he

1477
01:06:41,240 --> 01:06:38,460
describes as three five-foot

1478
01:06:43,670 --> 01:06:41,250
italian-looking aliens with mesmerizing

1479
01:06:46,130 --> 01:06:43,680
eyes wearing onesies and they want water

1480
01:06:47,810 --> 01:06:46,140
so I'd trade some water for some of what

1481
01:06:50,300 --> 01:06:47,820
he calls pancakes even though I would

1482
01:06:52,340 --> 01:06:50,310
call them cookies and he gave me the

1483
01:06:53,290 --> 01:06:52,350
back of his hand the gesture thanks I

1484
01:06:56,290 --> 01:06:53,300
presume

1485
01:06:58,510 --> 01:06:56,300
and then all I gave him I salute what am

1486
01:07:01,540 --> 01:06:58,520
I going to do I know it's this little

1487
01:07:03,280 --> 01:07:01,550
man same size of a man right beside the

1488
01:07:06,040 --> 01:07:03,290
right side of the hatchway cooking you

1489
01:07:08,530 --> 01:07:06,050
know cooking these pancakes which I have

1490
01:07:13,690 --> 01:07:08,540
one year yet he worked he was trying

1491
01:07:15,700 --> 01:07:13,700
these these pancakes and I pointed to

1492
01:07:18,010 --> 01:07:15,710
him and made a gesture like eating I

1493
01:07:23,230 --> 01:07:18,020
thought maybe I get a conversation out

1494
01:07:25,060 --> 01:07:23,240
of nobody was saying anything but he he

1495
01:07:26,859 --> 01:07:25,070
didn't say a word he just restored and

1496
01:07:29,530 --> 01:07:26,869
he got a handful before up and he hand

1497
01:07:31,570 --> 01:07:29,540
them down to me and they were hot and

1498
01:07:34,510 --> 01:07:31,580
greasy and with that he reached up and

1499
01:07:38,410 --> 01:07:34,520
he called this hatch with a heavy thud

1500
01:07:40,210 --> 01:07:38,420
quick like film it latch and with that

1501
01:07:42,280 --> 01:07:40,220
the thing started to rage just like it

1502
01:07:44,740 --> 01:07:42,290
came down everything was time for you

1503
01:07:48,310 --> 01:07:44,750
went up about 20 feet it killed at a

1504
01:07:50,859 --> 01:07:48,320
45-degree straight south and shot off

1505
01:07:53,230 --> 01:07:50,869
within two or three seconds it was out

1506
01:07:55,330 --> 01:07:53,240
of sight well there I stood in the

1507
01:07:57,790 --> 01:07:55,340
driveway with a handful of greasy

1508
01:08:00,460 --> 01:07:57,800
pancakes my mouth open wondering what

1509
01:08:02,020 --> 01:08:00,470
the heck I'd saw what had happen but you

1510
01:08:03,970 --> 01:08:02,030
know what you were about to sit down to

1511
01:08:04,570 --> 01:08:03,980
brunch I understand why you call it

1512
01:08:06,940 --> 01:08:04,580
pancakes

1513
01:08:09,670 --> 01:08:06,950
yeah how'd they taste they taste like

1514
01:08:11,890 --> 01:08:09,680
cardboard okay cool here's the thing

1515
01:08:13,900 --> 01:08:11,900
about that case that case is charming as

1516
01:08:16,150 --> 01:08:13,910
hell as opposed to Billy Meyer who is

1517
01:08:18,309 --> 01:08:16,160
not charming in the slightest Jo

1518
01:08:20,110 --> 01:08:18,319
Symington I was this isn't that man if

1519
01:08:22,840 --> 01:08:20,120
he was still alive today tell me all

1520
01:08:25,090 --> 01:08:22,850
about his his alien pancakes I don't

1521
01:08:27,550 --> 01:08:25,100
like to put a lot of stock into belief

1522
01:08:29,769 --> 01:08:27,560
but listening to Jo Symington I believe

1523
01:08:31,900 --> 01:08:29,779
that he did get some pancakes from with

1524
01:08:33,340 --> 01:08:31,910
some Italian looking aliens who had

1525
01:08:35,140 --> 01:08:33,350
mesmerizing eyes and they just wanted

1526
01:08:37,360 --> 01:08:35,150
some water I'm going with it I don't

1527
01:08:40,450 --> 01:08:37,370
care and one of the coolest things

1528
01:08:42,249 --> 01:08:40,460
that's coming out this year I believe

1529
01:08:44,710 --> 01:08:42,259
it's still coming out this year I had

1530
01:08:47,980 --> 01:08:44,720
John Tenney on my podcast he has written

1531
01:08:50,170 --> 01:08:47,990
a children's book about this case yeah

1532
01:08:54,160 --> 01:08:50,180
that is coming out later this year and

1533
01:08:57,579 --> 01:08:54,170
it's all about Jo Symington and he even

1534
01:09:01,990 --> 01:08:57,589
has a recipe in there for these space

1535
01:09:07,970 --> 01:09:02,000
pancakes and he has instructions for

1536
01:09:14,760 --> 01:09:12,570
yeah if anything if anything this this

1537
01:09:17,040 --> 01:09:14,770
case got more charming just based on

1538
01:09:20,160 --> 01:09:17,050
that so I will believe Jo Symington all

1539
01:09:21,360 --> 01:09:20,170
day long I love it I love it man and you

1540
01:09:23,310 --> 01:09:21,370
and I are gonna make a trip to

1541
01:09:25,590 --> 01:09:23,320
wright-patterson and we're gonna bring

1542
01:09:27,900 --> 01:09:25,600
you an edge I'm a guy or a Mrs

1543
01:09:30,180 --> 01:09:27,910
Butterworth um I could go either way I

1544
01:09:36,120 --> 01:09:30,190
really could okay all right we'll bring

1545
01:09:39,180 --> 01:09:36,130
just to be safe the libations continued

1546
01:09:42,120 --> 01:09:39,190
to flow in episode 71 when I had on

1547
01:09:42,660 --> 01:09:42,130
Jason McClellan of rogue planet and MJ

1548
01:09:45,480 --> 01:09:42,670
binaya

1549
01:09:47,670 --> 01:09:45,490
of tariffs Keira and we talked about the

1550
01:09:50,430 --> 01:09:47,680
endeavors currently being undertaken by

1551
01:09:53,810 --> 01:09:50,440
to the Stars Academy in collecting and

1552
01:09:57,390 --> 01:09:53,820
analyzing possible UFO or alien

1553
01:09:59,820 --> 01:09:57,400
materials known as the atom project

1554
01:10:02,610 --> 01:09:59,830
these materials will undergo rigorous

1555
01:10:06,690 --> 01:10:02,620
analysis to determine its composition

1556
01:10:09,930 --> 01:10:06,700
and possible origins but will we as a

1557
01:10:12,330 --> 01:10:09,940
public be privy to what they find and if

1558
01:10:15,510 --> 01:10:12,340
they do determine that these materials

1559
01:10:18,510 --> 01:10:15,520
are from off-planet what comes next

1560
01:10:21,540 --> 01:10:18,520
Jason and MJ have very different

1561
01:10:24,750 --> 01:10:21,550
opinions on that what happens when you

1562
01:10:27,090 --> 01:10:24,760
have your test results right if even if

1563
01:10:29,100 --> 01:10:27,100
your test results say wow we've never

1564
01:10:31,290 --> 01:10:29,110
seen anything like this this looks like

1565
01:10:33,330 --> 01:10:31,300
it was manufactured opera that's the

1566
01:10:35,010 --> 01:10:33,340
most likely explanation it's still not

1567
01:10:37,200 --> 01:10:35,020
concrete proof right it needs to be

1568
01:10:38,490 --> 01:10:37,210
tested and tested again and tested again

1569
01:10:40,170 --> 01:10:38,500
by multiple labs go through the

1570
01:10:42,120 --> 01:10:40,180
scientific process like MJ said at the

1571
01:10:45,270 --> 01:10:42,130
beginning you know it's a very rigorous

1572
01:10:46,470 --> 01:10:45,280
process for mainstream science let alone

1573
01:10:49,410 --> 01:10:46,480
talking about things that could

1574
01:10:51,480 --> 01:10:49,420
potentially be from a UFO so that makes

1575
01:10:53,790 --> 01:10:51,490
it even more difficult and really ups

1576
01:10:55,470 --> 01:10:53,800
the responsibility the burden of proof

1577
01:10:58,920 --> 01:10:55,480
on the people doing the testing in this

1578
01:11:02,160 --> 01:10:58,930
case but even if we accept their results

1579
01:11:05,250 --> 01:11:02,170
and say wow this thing is probably from

1580
01:11:07,770 --> 01:11:05,260
a UFO what does that do what does that

1581
01:11:10,080 --> 01:11:07,780
do for it for the world for us for the

1582
01:11:14,070 --> 01:11:10,090
for the UFO research community what does

1583
01:11:19,050 --> 01:11:14,080
that do my opinion is nothing not a

1584
01:11:20,910 --> 01:11:19,060
thing it sucks but you know for us in

1585
01:11:23,790 --> 01:11:20,920
this and for the people who are excited

1586
01:11:25,290 --> 01:11:23,800
about it I'm a UFO fan you know I want

1587
01:11:27,630 --> 01:11:25,300
those results I want to hear that

1588
01:11:29,160 --> 01:11:27,640
announcement it'll be super exciting for

1589
01:11:31,620 --> 01:11:29,170
me and I'll go that's cool

1590
01:11:33,630 --> 01:11:31,630
but I can't really do anything else with

1591
01:11:35,430 --> 01:11:33,640
it I'll follow it file it away in my

1592
01:11:38,520 --> 01:11:35,440
brain and say okay this is another

1593
01:11:41,729 --> 01:11:38,530
element I have to work with in forming

1594
01:11:44,160 --> 01:11:41,739
my own opinions but that's really all it

1595
01:11:46,020 --> 01:11:44,170
does it might stir some headlines for a

1596
01:11:49,229 --> 01:11:46,030
couple weeks like we saw with the

1597
01:11:52,530 --> 01:11:49,239
Pentagon UFO program but people are

1598
01:11:54,060 --> 01:11:52,540
gonna move on even if the results you

1599
01:11:56,660 --> 01:11:54,070
know go to go to a couple different labs

1600
01:11:58,830 --> 01:11:56,670
and say this is from an alien spacecraft

1601
01:12:00,750 --> 01:11:58,840
that news is still going to fade in a

1602
01:12:05,250 --> 01:12:00,760
couple weeks so is it going to change

1603
01:12:05,729 --> 01:12:05,260
the course of UFO research I don't think

1604
01:12:12,330 --> 01:12:05,739
so

1605
01:12:15,000 --> 01:12:12,340
say it's not gonna do anything on the

1606
01:12:17,490 --> 01:12:15,010
other hand I'm all for it I'm all behind

1607
01:12:20,160 --> 01:12:17,500
it 100% and I'm so excited

1608
01:12:22,979 --> 01:12:20,170
that somebody's willing to pony up that

1609
01:12:25,680 --> 01:12:22,989
money and do research like this because

1610
01:12:27,689 --> 01:12:25,690
I do think it's incredibly important but

1611
01:12:29,400 --> 01:12:27,699
all that while also saying it's not

1612
01:12:30,870 --> 01:12:29,410
really gonna do anything I'm gonna jump

1613
01:12:32,100 --> 01:12:30,880
in here I'll jump in here cuz I I don't

1614
01:12:35,070 --> 01:12:32,110
actually disagree so we're gonna have

1615
01:12:39,209 --> 01:12:35,080
our first debate of the night boys okay

1616
01:12:41,000 --> 01:12:39,219
so if let's say okay so in it I clarify

1617
01:12:44,640 --> 01:12:41,010
here Jason are you saying that if

1618
01:12:47,100 --> 01:12:44,650
multiple labs confirm the data and an

1619
01:12:49,110 --> 01:12:47,110
academic peer-reviewed paper is written

1620
01:12:50,310 --> 01:12:49,120
and published like we're talking about

1621
01:12:51,419 --> 01:12:50,320
I mean we're gonna but this can happen

1622
01:12:54,000 --> 01:12:51,429
tomorrow we're talking about this is

1623
01:12:55,890 --> 01:12:54,010
potentially like five to ten years

1624
01:12:57,630 --> 01:12:55,900
before this all happens because like

1625
01:12:59,390 --> 01:12:57,640
testing takes time and then writing the

1626
01:13:01,590 --> 01:12:59,400
paper and confirming your data so

1627
01:13:03,870 --> 01:13:01,600
assuming that happens and academic

1628
01:13:05,729 --> 01:13:03,880
papers written and it comes out yeah we

1629
01:13:08,970 --> 01:13:05,739
have a piece of material that is not

1630
01:13:11,790 --> 01:13:08,980
from this world and it is otherworldly

1631
01:13:13,919 --> 01:13:11,800
confirmed you're suggesting that that

1632
01:13:16,830 --> 01:13:13,929
would not change anything and you in

1633
01:13:19,050 --> 01:13:16,840
like the study of UFOs we have we have

1634
01:13:21,750 --> 01:13:19,060
mainstream scientists who have published

1635
01:13:24,120 --> 01:13:21,760
peer review papers confirming the

1636
01:13:26,220 --> 01:13:24,130
discovery of extraterrestrial life that

1637
01:13:28,530 --> 01:13:26,230
and that's mainstream science and they

1638
01:13:31,169 --> 01:13:28,540
get shot down that stuff barely makes

1639
01:13:32,580 --> 01:13:31,179
the news and people move on I mean now

1640
01:13:34,020 --> 01:13:32,590
we're talking about UFOs so it's even

1641
01:13:34,680 --> 01:13:34,030
harder what do you mean you is right

1642
01:13:36,540 --> 01:13:34,690
there's pure

1643
01:13:38,459 --> 01:13:36,550
you papers where scientists have come

1644
01:13:40,740 --> 01:13:38,469
out and said it has microbial

1645
01:13:45,360 --> 01:13:40,750
extraterrestrial life many times over in

1646
01:13:48,750 --> 01:13:45,370
many different or shares that is that is

1647
01:13:51,900 --> 01:13:48,760
fully refuted by plenty of scientists it

1648
01:13:54,120 --> 01:13:51,910
barely makes the news and then we move

1649
01:13:56,850 --> 01:13:54,130
on I think ultimately the what what

1650
01:13:58,950 --> 01:13:56,860
ultimately happens though is is the ball

1651
01:14:01,110 --> 01:13:58,960
rolls forward a little bit I mean how

1652
01:14:04,320 --> 01:14:01,120
many I'm sure as a result of those

1653
01:14:06,720 --> 01:14:04,330
papers most astrophysicists now and most

1654
01:14:10,350 --> 01:14:06,730
astronomers now most scientists now

1655
01:14:13,170 --> 01:14:10,360
believe or at least would argue that

1656
01:14:15,660 --> 01:14:13,180
life exists elsewhere in the cosmos sure

1657
01:14:18,120 --> 01:14:15,670
right where maybe a hundred years ago or

1658
01:14:20,610 --> 01:14:18,130
fifty years ago that would have been

1659
01:14:23,250 --> 01:14:20,620
viewed as maybe taboo or somewhat

1660
01:14:26,610 --> 01:14:23,260
heretical to the dogma of science but

1661
01:14:28,920 --> 01:14:26,620
now most people believe yeah there's

1662
01:14:30,660 --> 01:14:28,930
probably extraterrestrial life somewhere

1663
01:14:32,310 --> 01:14:30,670
out there whether it's coming here is

1664
01:14:35,790 --> 01:14:32,320
debatable right it's somewhere out there

1665
01:14:39,150 --> 01:14:35,800
if suddenly a material shows up that

1666
01:14:40,500 --> 01:14:39,160
enters the academic world as being ya

1667
01:14:42,660 --> 01:14:40,510
know it's been confirmed by multiple

1668
01:14:45,510 --> 01:14:42,670
labs and and articles been written and

1669
01:14:47,910 --> 01:14:45,520
and it is I would argue that mainstream

1670
01:14:49,920 --> 01:14:47,920
academia what now potentially at least

1671
01:14:52,320 --> 01:14:49,930
certain people within mainstream

1672
01:14:54,150 --> 01:14:52,330
academia would start to start studying

1673
01:14:55,590 --> 01:14:54,160
the phenomena is being like okay well

1674
01:14:58,140 --> 01:14:55,600
maybe something is actually happening

1675
01:14:59,820 --> 01:14:58,150
since there is something here right we

1676
01:15:01,290 --> 01:14:59,830
have a tangible piece of we have

1677
01:15:04,080 --> 01:15:01,300
tangible object we can actually study

1678
01:15:06,450 --> 01:15:04,090
now this was one of the best

1679
01:15:08,459 --> 01:15:06,460
conversations I had on the show about

1680
01:15:10,650 --> 01:15:08,469
the latest outer inspected the Stars

1681
01:15:13,650 --> 01:15:10,660
Academy and I know our talks about Tom

1682
01:15:16,350 --> 01:15:13,660
DeLonge company have only begun the

1683
01:15:19,260 --> 01:15:16,360
coming year promises a lot of updates

1684
01:15:21,959 --> 01:15:19,270
discoveries and projects by to the stars

1685
01:15:24,689 --> 01:15:21,969
so stay tuned for all of that as the

1686
01:15:26,850 --> 01:15:24,699
year progresses also as the year

1687
01:15:30,390 --> 01:15:26,860
progresses I am looking forward to what

1688
01:15:33,540 --> 01:15:30,400
my guests on episode 75 is trying to

1689
01:15:34,890 --> 01:15:33,550
achieve that guess was UFO investigator

1690
01:15:37,020 --> 01:15:34,900
chase clusky

1691
01:15:39,390 --> 01:15:37,030
after hearing about her extensive

1692
01:15:41,580 --> 01:15:39,400
careers with Homeland Security and the

1693
01:15:43,360 --> 01:15:41,590
Department of Defense I was excited to

1694
01:15:45,490 --> 01:15:43,370
hear from a woman who inked

1695
01:15:47,950 --> 01:15:45,500
her many skills into her UFO

1696
01:15:50,850 --> 01:15:47,960
investigative work and even cooler

1697
01:15:54,640 --> 01:15:50,860
she was now taking UFOs to the hill

1698
01:15:58,510 --> 01:15:54,650
filing as one of the first UFO lobbyists

1699
01:16:01,660 --> 01:15:58,520
in Washington DC in 2016 you became a

1700
01:16:03,640 --> 01:16:01,670
lobbyist for the UFO field you are

1701
01:16:05,890 --> 01:16:03,650
fighting the fight for us down in DC

1702
01:16:07,330 --> 01:16:05,900
chase so what what made you want to do

1703
01:16:09,820 --> 01:16:07,340
this what it what did you hope to

1704
01:16:12,370 --> 01:16:09,830
achieve in becoming a UFO lobbyist this

1705
01:16:14,410 --> 01:16:12,380
is awesome yeah it was it was really

1706
01:16:17,650 --> 01:16:14,420
Steve Bassett and you know being a

1707
01:16:20,920 --> 01:16:17,660
witness to an extraordinary event that

1708
01:16:22,840 --> 01:16:20,930
produced a lot of forward movement for

1709
01:16:25,570 --> 01:16:22,850
us as ufologists and that was the

1710
01:16:27,580 --> 01:16:25,580
citizens hearing for disclosure and you

1711
01:16:30,310 --> 01:16:27,590
know I know they were former Congress

1712
01:16:31,900 --> 01:16:30,320
and Senators and if anybody knows how DC

1713
01:16:34,180 --> 01:16:31,910
works they probably have more political

1714
01:16:38,710 --> 01:16:34,190
clout to call the president than the

1715
01:16:40,180 --> 01:16:38,720
seeded ones right now but right but you

1716
01:16:42,310 --> 01:16:40,190
know I watched them come in on a Monday

1717
01:16:45,700 --> 01:16:42,320
and they were being polite and they were

1718
01:16:47,380 --> 01:16:45,710
listening by Wednesday we had half of

1719
01:16:50,200 --> 01:16:47,390
them standing up saying we need those

1720
01:16:52,000 --> 01:16:50,210
files open so what I realized is when

1721
01:16:54,490 --> 01:16:52,010
you approach these people who have no

1722
01:16:56,860 --> 01:16:54,500
idea no idea of what's going on they're

1723
01:16:59,560 --> 01:16:56,870
not being read in the secret keepers are

1724
01:17:02,440 --> 01:16:59,570
not these guys sitting in the house or

1725
01:17:04,900 --> 01:17:02,450
the Senate with the right language

1726
01:17:07,900 --> 01:17:04,910
we can't educate them and they get it I

1727
01:17:10,590 --> 01:17:07,910
saw at the citizens hearing so when we

1728
01:17:12,970 --> 01:17:10,600
kind of thought what are we not doing as

1729
01:17:14,980 --> 01:17:12,980
ufologists in this field well we're

1730
01:17:17,500 --> 01:17:14,990
really not including the scientist and

1731
01:17:20,380 --> 01:17:17,510
the lawmakers could have been brutal to

1732
01:17:22,930 --> 01:17:20,390
us in the past and you know not being

1733
01:17:26,920 --> 01:17:22,940
afraid to have a door shut my face I've

1734
01:17:29,320 --> 01:17:26,930
really elicit both and I use science a

1735
01:17:33,010 --> 01:17:29,330
lot of scientists to test a lot of labs

1736
01:17:35,230 --> 01:17:33,020
because I won't use UFO labs because you

1737
01:17:36,820 --> 01:17:35,240
know it's like the prosecution trying to

1738
01:17:39,700 --> 01:17:36,830
prove the case with only their witnesses

1739
01:17:41,590 --> 01:17:39,710
okay so you know I use very independent

1740
01:17:44,770 --> 01:17:41,600
labs a scientists and I've learned as

1741
01:17:47,380 --> 01:17:44,780
long as I'm not saying hey I think this

1742
01:17:49,660 --> 01:17:47,390
metals from a mothership yeah it's like

1743
01:17:51,250 --> 01:17:49,670
hey I got some metal you test metal can

1744
01:17:53,020 --> 01:17:51,260
I send you this metal how much is that

1745
01:17:56,450 --> 01:17:53,030
going to cost and we're good to go

1746
01:17:58,820 --> 01:17:56,460
and and I'm getting really noted

1747
01:18:00,620 --> 01:17:58,830
laughs and and some of the guys that

1748
01:18:03,500 --> 01:18:00,630
I've even had examined our stuff are up

1749
01:18:05,570 --> 01:18:03,510
from four Nobel Peace Prize so yeah and

1750
01:18:07,400 --> 01:18:05,580
knowing that okay well we walked through

1751
01:18:09,080 --> 01:18:07,410
that door what's the next one

1752
01:18:10,580 --> 01:18:09,090
so I kind of thought we have to get our

1753
01:18:12,229 --> 01:18:10,590
lawmakers because we're never going to

1754
01:18:14,360 --> 01:18:12,239
get anything Declassified we're never

1755
01:18:17,120 --> 01:18:14,370
going to change anything with the secret

1756
01:18:19,670 --> 01:18:17,130
keepers or to have any transparency if

1757
01:18:22,729 --> 01:18:19,680
we don't start including the very people

1758
01:18:24,590 --> 01:18:22,739
that can do it I am really looking

1759
01:18:26,810 --> 01:18:24,600
forward to hearing from chase again in

1760
01:18:29,690 --> 01:18:26,820
the near future and updating everyone on

1761
01:18:33,260 --> 01:18:29,700
how her meeting with Congress went but

1762
01:18:36,650 --> 01:18:33,270
for now we're moving to episode 83 live

1763
01:18:39,080 --> 01:18:36,660
from a link on Baltimore this was a

1764
01:18:41,300 --> 01:18:39,090
jam-packed weekend where I got to give

1765
01:18:43,959 --> 01:18:41,310
by someone the skies lecture and spoke

1766
01:18:47,540 --> 01:18:43,969
on many different panels it was insane

1767
01:18:49,310 --> 01:18:47,550
when I wasn't too busy I was able to get

1768
01:18:52,310 --> 01:18:49,320
some brief interviews with both

1769
01:18:54,290 --> 01:18:52,320
attendees and other presenters and one

1770
01:18:57,320 --> 01:18:54,300
of my favorites from that weekend was

1771
01:19:00,650 --> 01:18:57,330
from Rami Romani Rami is a world

1772
01:19:03,130 --> 01:19:00,660
renowned Egyptologist and author in this

1773
01:19:06,110 --> 01:19:03,140
interview we touch on his latest book

1774
01:19:08,570 --> 01:19:06,120
conspired in the even clears up some

1775
01:19:12,380 --> 01:19:08,580
misconceptions I and many others have

1776
01:19:14,240 --> 01:19:12,390
had on the ancient alien theory thank

1777
01:19:16,280 --> 01:19:14,250
you so much for joining me man thank you

1778
01:19:18,440 --> 01:19:16,290
so much for having me right to finally

1779
01:19:21,020 --> 01:19:18,450
meet you it's a huge honor so I have to

1780
01:19:23,990 --> 01:19:21,030
ask you you are giving a talk today

1781
01:19:25,670 --> 01:19:24,000
today is Saturday and Sunday two

1782
01:19:28,070 --> 01:19:25,680
different talks one on the history of

1783
01:19:29,840 --> 01:19:28,080
Egypt one on mummy so could you tell us

1784
01:19:31,280 --> 01:19:29,850
a little bit about both of those for the

1785
01:19:33,680 --> 01:19:31,290
people who aren't going to make it here

1786
01:19:35,510 --> 01:19:33,690
well the first one is not just about the

1787
01:19:39,459 --> 01:19:35,520
history of Egypt it's about the biased

1788
01:19:41,630 --> 01:19:39,469
history of Egypt I am obsessed with

1789
01:19:44,660 --> 01:19:41,640
archaeology and Egyptology but in a

1790
01:19:47,320 --> 01:19:44,670
different way I am obsessed with the

1791
01:19:50,360 --> 01:19:47,330
unexplained I've studied all my live

1792
01:19:53,270 --> 01:19:50,370
explanations that could make sense to

1793
01:19:55,160 --> 01:19:53,280
big world mysteries in ancient Egypt and

1794
01:19:56,900 --> 01:19:55,170
the problem is that it's the

1795
01:20:00,110 --> 01:19:56,910
explanations that everyone comes

1796
01:20:03,110 --> 01:20:00,120
together and agrees on with no facts and

1797
01:20:05,870 --> 01:20:03,120
that's the problem for me the

1798
01:20:08,750 --> 01:20:05,880
unexplained is what matters most and I

1799
01:20:09,590 --> 01:20:08,760
think it's a group effort by everyone

1800
01:20:11,270 --> 01:20:09,600
that listens

1801
01:20:13,550 --> 01:20:11,280
by everyone that looks into it because

1802
01:20:16,250 --> 01:20:13,560
everyone comes up with their own theory

1803
01:20:20,540 --> 01:20:16,260
and one of them could be correct but the

1804
01:20:22,760 --> 01:20:20,550
unexplained is my passion and ancient

1805
01:20:24,680 --> 01:20:22,770
Egypt has a lot of unexplained history

1806
01:20:26,750 --> 01:20:24,690
we have so much we have so much

1807
01:20:29,120 --> 01:20:26,760
archaeology from each agent that we have

1808
01:20:32,690 --> 01:20:29,130
found but even though that's the case

1809
01:20:36,020 --> 01:20:32,700
it's only 10% of ancient Egypt

1810
01:20:40,100 --> 01:20:36,030
90% of ancient Egypt is still under the

1811
01:20:43,820 --> 01:20:40,110
sands of Egypt so having a lot of

1812
01:20:46,340 --> 01:20:43,830
mysteries still unexplained is the

1813
01:20:48,710 --> 01:20:46,350
reason I do this and it's fine if it's

1814
01:20:50,960 --> 01:20:48,720
unexplained 90% of ancient Egypt has not

1815
01:20:53,810 --> 01:20:50,970
been found it's fine if it's unexplained

1816
01:20:55,850 --> 01:20:53,820
and that's what I do I love them and a

1817
01:20:57,590 --> 01:20:55,860
lot of the misconceptions with the whole

1818
01:21:00,080 --> 01:20:57,600
ancient alien theory as well is I

1819
01:21:01,700 --> 01:21:00,090
remember someone asks you this with when

1820
01:21:05,120 --> 01:21:01,710
you have like one minute left to answer

1821
01:21:08,200 --> 01:21:05,130
at a Q&A did aliens build the pyramids

1822
01:21:10,370 --> 01:21:08,210
in Egypt and I loved your answer it was

1823
01:21:12,860 --> 01:21:10,380
you're gonna ask me that what I have one

1824
01:21:14,660 --> 01:21:12,870
minute left it's a huge contention and a

1825
01:21:16,940 --> 01:21:14,670
misconception that ancient aliens is

1826
01:21:19,130 --> 01:21:16,950
just about aliens came here and they

1827
01:21:21,980 --> 01:21:19,140
built all of these amazing things that

1828
01:21:24,290 --> 01:21:21,990
cultures get no credit for so I have to

1829
01:21:27,590 --> 01:21:24,300
ask you what do you make of all these

1830
01:21:29,540 --> 01:21:27,600
these these ideas and your role that you

1831
01:21:32,060 --> 01:21:29,550
play in bringing that to the ancient

1832
01:21:32,840 --> 01:21:32,070
aliens theory to that audience what do

1833
01:21:35,240 --> 01:21:32,850
you make of all that

1834
01:21:38,030 --> 01:21:35,250
it's the biggest criticism I have as an

1835
01:21:40,820 --> 01:21:38,040
apologist from the scientific world just

1836
01:21:44,090 --> 01:21:40,830
the fact that I appear on ancient aliens

1837
01:21:46,670 --> 01:21:44,100
and the problem with that is that I

1838
01:21:49,910 --> 01:21:46,680
think the scientific world is just as

1839
01:21:51,680 --> 01:21:49,920
ignorant about what they criticize as

1840
01:21:53,690 --> 01:21:51,690
the rest of the world is they probably

1841
01:21:55,730 --> 01:21:53,700
have never watched ancient aliens and

1842
01:21:57,590 --> 01:21:55,740
just by looking at the title they

1843
01:22:00,470 --> 01:21:57,600
probably think ancient aliens is all

1844
01:22:02,840 --> 01:22:00,480
about green people coming to the earth

1845
01:22:05,150 --> 01:22:02,850
coming to earth hundreds of thousands

1846
01:22:08,150 --> 01:22:05,160
years ago and building structures with

1847
01:22:12,680 --> 01:22:08,160
technology for us and that is not the

1848
01:22:15,140 --> 01:22:12,690
case ancient aliens is literally a place

1849
01:22:18,410 --> 01:22:15,150
where people ask questions and have

1850
01:22:19,280 --> 01:22:18,420
unexplained theories and ancient aliens

1851
01:22:22,700 --> 01:22:19,290
can

1852
01:22:26,030 --> 01:22:22,710
and deceiving but the ancient Egyptian

1853
01:22:29,990 --> 01:22:26,040
mythology with the gods and every job of

1854
01:22:33,830 --> 01:22:30,000
every God just the gods of ancient Egypt

1855
01:22:37,130 --> 01:22:33,840
is that the definition of ancient aliens

1856
01:22:40,460 --> 01:22:37,140
an alien is a being that doesn't come

1857
01:22:43,520 --> 01:22:40,470
from this earth whatever it is and if

1858
01:22:45,830 --> 01:22:43,530
people believe in gods of ancient Egypt

1859
01:22:47,420 --> 01:22:45,840
what is a God a God is a being that

1860
01:22:49,490 --> 01:22:47,430
doesn't come from this earth so that is

1861
01:22:52,240 --> 01:22:49,500
technically an alien but just saying

1862
01:22:54,950 --> 01:22:52,250
ancient aliens sounds so bad when

1863
01:22:57,200 --> 01:22:54,960
scientifically and theoretically when

1864
01:22:59,260 --> 01:22:57,210
you think about it ancient Egyptian

1865
01:23:01,220 --> 01:22:59,270
mythology is full of ancient aliens

1866
01:23:03,230 --> 01:23:01,230
that's a really good point

1867
01:23:05,090 --> 01:23:03,240
do your research look into the history

1868
01:23:06,680 --> 01:23:05,100
of the place and then come to those

1869
01:23:08,660 --> 01:23:06,690
conclusions I love that I love them so

1870
01:23:11,000 --> 01:23:08,670
your next talk is going to be about

1871
01:23:13,850 --> 01:23:11,010
mummies can you give us a little cap on

1872
01:23:16,010 --> 01:23:13,860
what that's gonna be about my next off

1873
01:23:17,390 --> 01:23:16,020
is going to be about mummies not just

1874
01:23:19,310 --> 01:23:17,400
because I'm obsessed with my I have a

1875
01:23:23,780 --> 01:23:19,320
mummy fetish maybe I shouldn't be saying

1876
01:23:30,560 --> 01:23:23,790
that but it's an exclusive but mummies

1877
01:23:34,340 --> 01:23:30,570
are the one thing we actually have from

1878
01:23:36,740 --> 01:23:34,350
ancient Egypt that is real everything

1879
01:23:39,560 --> 01:23:36,750
else it could be anything but the

1880
01:23:42,350 --> 01:23:39,570
mummies is the bodies of these ancient

1881
01:23:45,290 --> 01:23:42,360
Egyptians and sometimes we don't realize

1882
01:23:47,870 --> 01:23:45,300
that mummy is a scary thing in a movie

1883
01:23:49,820 --> 01:23:47,880
but those mummies are human bodies those

1884
01:23:51,620 --> 01:23:49,830
mummies are dead people that are still

1885
01:23:53,900 --> 01:23:51,630
here a thousand years later those

1886
01:23:57,020 --> 01:23:53,910
mummies are literally a time capsule

1887
01:23:58,880 --> 01:23:57,030
that can tell us so much about the

1888
01:24:05,060 --> 01:23:58,890
history of our ancestors when the

1889
01:24:10,490 --> 01:24:05,070
technologies right and keep watching for

1890
01:24:15,110 --> 01:24:10,500
me on TV for some announcement coming up

1891
01:24:17,150 --> 01:24:15,120
and it mummies is the hint you've heard

1892
01:24:19,340 --> 01:24:17,160
it first here guys all right so we're

1893
01:24:21,740 --> 01:24:19,350
gonna cap this off with you recently

1894
01:24:23,660 --> 01:24:21,750
came out with a book I was so excited

1895
01:24:25,160 --> 01:24:23,670
when I saw this coming out conspired can

1896
01:24:26,750 --> 01:24:25,170
you tell us a little bit about this

1897
01:24:30,350 --> 01:24:26,760
where we can find it and what to expect

1898
01:24:33,240 --> 01:24:30,360
from it conspired is a book that is also

1899
01:24:36,030 --> 01:24:33,250
about an unexplained mystery that

1900
01:24:37,680 --> 01:24:36,040
strikes me as an archaeologist I went

1901
01:24:39,870 --> 01:24:37,690
inside a tomb in ancient Egypt that no

1902
01:24:41,940 --> 01:24:39,880
one is allowed into it's called cave e55

1903
01:24:44,520 --> 01:24:41,950
and when I went inside I was unlike any

1904
01:24:45,960 --> 01:24:44,530
other tomb bare walls no drawings all

1905
01:24:48,480 --> 01:24:45,970
the way inside there's a sarcophagus

1906
01:24:51,390 --> 01:24:48,490
with a mummy and around the mummy there

1907
01:24:53,550 --> 01:24:51,400
is their magical blocks those magical

1908
01:24:54,780 --> 01:24:53,560
blocks exist in every tomb they are the

1909
01:24:56,610 --> 01:24:54,790
ones that protect the mummy from the

1910
01:24:57,750 --> 01:24:56,620
outer world because that's where people

1911
01:24:59,370 --> 01:24:57,760
think the mummy curse

1912
01:25:00,900 --> 01:24:59,380
they have inscriptions on them that says

1913
01:25:04,080 --> 01:25:00,910
anyone that comes close to this mummy

1914
01:25:06,630 --> 01:25:04,090
will be choked to death but in that tomb

1915
01:25:10,200 --> 01:25:06,640
specifically those magical blocks were

1916
01:25:13,470 --> 01:25:10,210
turned inwards instead of outwards which

1917
01:25:15,210 --> 01:25:13,480
tells you that whoever did this wanted

1918
01:25:17,100 --> 01:25:15,220
to not protect this mummy from the outer

1919
01:25:19,710 --> 01:25:17,110
world but to protect the outer world

1920
01:25:20,190 --> 01:25:19,720
from this mummy on the way out of the

1921
01:25:21,900 --> 01:25:20,200
tomb

1922
01:25:23,910 --> 01:25:21,910
there were inscriptions on the wall by

1923
01:25:26,730 --> 01:25:23,920
ancient Egyptian priests language the

1924
01:25:29,730 --> 01:25:26,740
heretics and it says the evil one shall

1925
01:25:32,340 --> 01:25:29,740
not live again that took me on a journey

1926
01:25:34,500 --> 01:25:32,350
to try to solve this mystery and find

1927
01:25:37,080 --> 01:25:34,510
the unexplained who could this be and

1928
01:25:39,510 --> 01:25:37,090
why did they treat him so bad what could

1929
01:25:41,910 --> 01:25:39,520
he have done and that's the book how

1930
01:25:45,450 --> 01:25:41,920
where can we find you can find the alien

1931
01:25:50,730 --> 01:25:45,460
Contour or amazon.com thank you so much

1932
01:25:53,220 --> 01:25:50,740
for joining me today I can't wait to see

1933
01:25:55,980 --> 01:25:53,230
this new TV project Rami is working on

1934
01:25:59,010 --> 01:25:55,990
if it's God mummys Amen it's all saying

1935
01:26:01,140 --> 01:25:59,020
and our next guest was all in when it

1936
01:26:04,650 --> 01:26:01,150
came to his highly controversial film

1937
01:26:07,170 --> 01:26:04,660
covering the area 51 mythology in

1938
01:26:10,020 --> 01:26:07,180
episode 84 I spoke with investigative

1939
01:26:13,770 --> 01:26:10,030
filmmaker Jeremy Corbyn all about his

1940
01:26:16,740 --> 01:26:13,780
film bob lazar area 51 in flying saucers

1941
01:26:18,540 --> 01:26:16,750
there has been a lot of contention with

1942
01:26:21,240 --> 01:26:18,550
the claims brought forward by Bob Lazar

1943
01:26:23,610 --> 01:26:21,250
and the UFO field in general has always

1944
01:26:26,160 --> 01:26:23,620
been split on whether they believe he is

1945
01:26:29,160 --> 01:26:26,170
telling the truth or not and with his

1946
01:26:31,380 --> 01:26:29,170
story now amplified by corbels film for

1947
01:26:33,540 --> 01:26:31,390
a whole new generation I wanted to hear

1948
01:26:35,940 --> 01:26:33,550
his thoughts on the skeptics

1949
01:26:38,010 --> 01:26:35,950
and even his thoughts on those who

1950
01:26:40,190 --> 01:26:38,020
straight-up debunked the entire Bob

1951
01:26:43,700 --> 01:26:40,200
Lazar story and as you can imagine

1952
01:26:45,530 --> 01:26:43,710
things got real interesting real quick

1953
01:26:50,180 --> 01:26:45,540
it's you know it's an interesting thing

1954
01:26:52,220 --> 01:26:50,190
it's extremely easy for internet trolls

1955
01:26:56,169 --> 01:26:52,230
and people who are on the outside

1956
01:27:00,740 --> 01:26:56,179
looking in to look at a story that is

1957
01:27:03,439 --> 01:27:00,750
fundamentally hard to grasp and then to

1958
01:27:05,060 --> 01:27:03,449
dehumanize the messenger this is

1959
01:27:06,979 --> 01:27:05,070
something that is done over and over

1960
01:27:08,660 --> 01:27:06,989
it's done in warfare this is something

1961
01:27:10,729 --> 01:27:08,670
that is done by intelligence agencies

1962
01:27:14,240 --> 01:27:10,739
this is something that is done so you

1963
01:27:15,979 --> 01:27:14,250
can dismiss the message by dehumanizing

1964
01:27:18,560 --> 01:27:15,989
the messenger you know and I gotta say

1965
01:27:21,320 --> 01:27:18,570
the critics of Bob Lazar have been

1966
01:27:24,530 --> 01:27:21,330
holding the mic for the last thirty

1967
01:27:26,930 --> 01:27:24,540
years and it's time to take the mic back

1968
01:27:29,390 --> 01:27:26,940
and that's exactly what we're gonna do

1969
01:27:30,140 --> 01:27:29,400
on December 3rd at the world premiere in

1970
01:27:32,510 --> 01:27:30,150
Los Angeles

1971
01:27:35,770 --> 01:27:32,520
it is simply time to take the mic back

1972
01:27:38,930 --> 01:27:35,780
you know Bob Bob has never been one to

1973
01:27:40,550 --> 01:27:38,940
try to correct everybody on his story

1974
01:27:42,760 --> 01:27:40,560
and what's been going on he disengaged

1975
01:27:45,649 --> 01:27:42,770
he came forward to protect himself

1976
01:27:48,680 --> 01:27:45,659
whether you believe it or not that's the

1977
01:27:52,000 --> 01:27:48,690
truth now it is time it is time that the

1978
01:27:55,250 --> 01:27:52,010
story is told to to new generations

1979
01:27:57,080 --> 01:27:55,260
think about it thirty years ago was when

1980
01:27:58,880 --> 01:27:57,090
he came forward with George Knapp so now

1981
01:28:01,760 --> 01:27:58,890
we have the opportunity for two new

1982
01:28:03,290 --> 01:28:01,770
generations to hear this story so it's

1983
01:28:04,459 --> 01:28:03,300
happening whether you like it or not

1984
01:28:07,280 --> 01:28:04,469
here's the deal man

1985
01:28:10,970 --> 01:28:07,290
there are more snakes and charlatans and

1986
01:28:14,330 --> 01:28:10,980
half-wit just parents in this field than

1987
01:28:16,850 --> 01:28:14,340
any other field I'm sorry it's true most

1988
01:28:19,490 --> 01:28:16,860
you all being sold a bucket of lies and

1989
01:28:21,530 --> 01:28:19,500
you are just happily eating it up now

1990
01:28:23,720 --> 01:28:21,540
obviously not the fans listening to this

1991
01:28:25,880 --> 01:28:23,730
podcast you listening to Ryan I mean you

1992
01:28:28,669 --> 01:28:25,890
know you've got good taste you know but

1993
01:28:31,070 --> 01:28:28,679
I'm just saying it is true and it is sad

1994
01:28:33,320 --> 01:28:31,080
so people need to snap out of it wake

1995
01:28:35,930 --> 01:28:33,330
the up and start to understand that

1996
01:28:37,520 --> 01:28:35,940
all this BS and I don't even name names

1997
01:28:39,290 --> 01:28:37,530
because the deal is that gives them

1998
01:28:41,240 --> 01:28:39,300
power gives them a platform they don't

1999
01:28:43,399 --> 01:28:41,250
even deserve it but you know all the

2000
01:28:45,020 --> 01:28:43,409
people I'm talking about all these you

2001
01:28:46,790 --> 01:28:45,030
know fake messiahs and people are gonna

2002
01:28:48,290 --> 01:28:46,800
save the world with disclosure and all

2003
01:28:49,220 --> 01:28:48,300
these people that are telling you all

2004
01:28:51,169 --> 01:28:49,230
these things they have not a single

2005
01:28:52,879 --> 01:28:51,179
piece of shred of evidence or any way

2006
01:28:56,210 --> 01:28:52,889
else to back them up besides their other

2007
01:28:59,840 --> 01:28:56,220
charlatan friends I do not focus

2008
01:29:03,080 --> 01:28:59,850
on those stories I will never focus my

2009
01:29:05,810 --> 01:29:03,090
camera on an individual who I think is

2010
01:29:08,450 --> 01:29:05,820
being deceptive not from day one and

2011
01:29:10,790 --> 01:29:08,460
I'll quit in the middle of day one if I

2012
01:29:13,280 --> 01:29:10,800
ever started down that road the films

2013
01:29:15,740 --> 01:29:13,290
you get from me are all about the

2014
01:29:18,980 --> 01:29:15,750
extraordinary beliefs of credible

2015
01:29:20,960 --> 01:29:18,990
individuals I may not completely agree

2016
01:29:23,600 --> 01:29:20,970
with a cosmology that somebody presents

2017
01:29:25,760 --> 01:29:23,610
in one of my films however I will never

2018
01:29:27,380 --> 01:29:25,770
point a camera at somebody who I think

2019
01:29:32,450 --> 01:29:27,390
is intentionally deceiving the public

2020
01:29:35,840 --> 01:29:32,460
never will that's it Jeremy Korbel is

2021
01:29:37,430 --> 01:29:35,850
one passionate mofo if you have not seen

2022
01:29:39,890 --> 01:29:37,440
the film yet please check it out it's on

2023
01:29:40,820 --> 01:29:39,900
all streaming platforms again it's

2024
01:29:43,970 --> 01:29:40,830
called Bob Lazar

2025
01:29:46,160 --> 01:29:43,980
area 51 and flying saucers and you know

2026
01:29:48,320 --> 01:29:46,170
what just make up your own line come to

2027
01:29:50,300 --> 01:29:48,330
your own conclusions on it something

2028
01:29:54,230 --> 01:29:50,310
tells me we're gonna be debating Bob

2029
01:29:56,900 --> 01:29:54,240
Lazar till the end of time episode 84

2030
01:29:58,130 --> 01:29:56,910
was a bit more lighthearted as I had

2031
01:30:00,830 --> 01:29:58,140
three of my good friends and colleagues

2032
01:30:04,640 --> 01:30:00,840
on to talk all about some interesting

2033
01:30:06,920 --> 01:30:04,650
space related discoveries in 2018 my

2034
01:30:09,740 --> 01:30:06,930
guests included Maureen Elsberry and

2035
01:30:12,140 --> 01:30:09,750
Jason McClellan of Rockland and our

2036
01:30:14,000 --> 01:30:12,150
resident pug rocky apologist Mike

2037
01:30:16,160 --> 01:30:14,010
Demonte here

2038
01:30:18,620 --> 01:30:16,170
we discussed the mysterious interstellar

2039
01:30:21,800 --> 01:30:18,630
object that came in for a hug with earth

2040
01:30:24,320 --> 01:30:21,810
and then gave us the cold children we

2041
01:30:27,050 --> 01:30:24,330
had some really like groundbreaking

2042
01:30:30,140 --> 01:30:27,060
stuff happened this past year late 2017

2043
01:30:32,660 --> 01:30:30,150
early 2018 and for the first time in

2044
01:30:35,450 --> 01:30:32,670
history scientists have detected the

2045
01:30:39,140 --> 01:30:35,460
first interstellar object ever observed

2046
01:30:40,490 --> 01:30:39,150
now this is amazing in my opinion we're

2047
01:30:42,800 --> 01:30:40,500
talking about oh mooie-mooie

2048
01:30:45,080 --> 01:30:42,810
avi low chair of the Harvard University

2049
01:30:47,210 --> 01:30:45,090
Astronomy Department said oh mooie-mooie

2050
01:30:49,640 --> 01:30:47,220
did not behave like an ordinary asteroid

2051
01:30:51,530 --> 01:30:49,650
or give off gas like a comet there

2052
01:30:53,870 --> 01:30:51,540
seemed to be an extra force that is

2053
01:30:57,290 --> 01:30:53,880
pushing it and it's not clear what this

2054
01:30:59,180 --> 01:30:57,300
push is from in an upcoming paper he and

2055
01:31:01,610 --> 01:30:59,190
a colleague offer what they call a more

2056
01:31:04,310 --> 01:31:01,620
exotic scenario oh mooie-mooie

2057
01:31:06,500 --> 01:31:04,320
maybe a fully operational probe sent

2058
01:31:08,510 --> 01:31:06,510
intentionally to earth vicinity by an

2059
01:31:09,410 --> 01:31:08,520
alien civilization this thing kind of

2060
01:31:11,419 --> 01:31:09,420
made a comeback

2061
01:31:15,439 --> 01:31:11,429
Harvard scientists wrote a paper about

2062
01:31:16,610 --> 01:31:15,449
it claiming that it could be aliens now

2063
01:31:18,770 --> 01:31:16,620
I know that's you know that's a very

2064
01:31:21,140 --> 01:31:18,780
hypothetical thing and of course every

2065
01:31:24,430 --> 01:31:21,150
news outlet grapples onto that one

2066
01:31:27,380 --> 01:31:24,440
little quote that they say but very

2067
01:31:29,810 --> 01:31:27,390
fascinating this huge elongated object

2068
01:31:31,790 --> 01:31:29,820
that came into our solar system hung out

2069
01:31:35,270 --> 01:31:31,800
for a little bit and made some really

2070
01:31:37,100 --> 01:31:35,280
odd maneuvers and took off probably

2071
01:31:39,520 --> 01:31:37,110
never see it again but who knows but

2072
01:31:41,900 --> 01:31:39,530
what do you guys make up the whole Omaha

2073
01:31:47,390 --> 01:31:41,910
incident where do you all stand on this

2074
01:31:49,910 --> 01:31:47,400
thing it's hard to say I mean because

2075
01:31:52,910 --> 01:31:49,920
you know they that there are there's

2076
01:31:56,050 --> 01:31:52,920
some research to suggest that the kind

2077
01:31:59,090 --> 01:31:56,060
of movement it had could be similar to

2078
01:32:01,970 --> 01:31:59,100
resulting from gases from a comet but

2079
01:32:05,209 --> 01:32:01,980
could it be an alien probe well we can't

2080
01:32:06,950 --> 01:32:05,219
really say it couldn't be because we

2081
01:32:10,160 --> 01:32:06,960
can't see it anymore and we didn't get a

2082
01:32:11,720 --> 01:32:10,170
good enough look at it so maybe but I

2083
01:32:13,250 --> 01:32:11,730
think it's more fascinating you know

2084
01:32:16,430 --> 01:32:13,260
that this is the first object we've

2085
01:32:19,189 --> 01:32:16,440
spotted from interstellar space and that

2086
01:32:21,680 --> 01:32:19,199
they believe that there's at least four

2087
01:32:25,250 --> 01:32:21,690
other objects that could be of

2088
01:32:28,160 --> 01:32:25,260
interstellar origin currently bouncing

2089
01:32:30,890 --> 01:32:28,170
around that you know could be hiding

2090
01:32:33,709 --> 01:32:30,900
amongst all the the other space debris

2091
01:32:35,540 --> 01:32:33,719
and I don't know it's it's kind of

2092
01:32:39,410 --> 01:32:35,550
fascinating or they're just a bunch of

2093
01:32:42,439 --> 01:32:39,420
like creepy alien drones hanging out in

2094
01:32:44,720 --> 01:32:42,449
our solar system it's not that

2095
01:32:47,360 --> 01:32:44,730
far-fetched I mean we say probes to

2096
01:32:49,939 --> 01:32:47,370
other planets granted within our own

2097
01:32:51,979 --> 01:32:49,949
solar system but but just look at Star

2098
01:32:54,229 --> 01:32:51,989
Trek I mean yes it's science fiction but

2099
01:32:56,930 --> 01:32:54,239
is it really that far-fetched to think

2100
01:33:00,200 --> 01:32:56,940
that we could advance to that in the

2101
01:33:02,030 --> 01:33:00,210
relatively near future I don't I mean we

2102
01:33:04,880 --> 01:33:02,040
just had we just had one of our objects

2103
01:33:06,080 --> 01:33:04,890
go interstellar right so yeah I mean you

2104
01:33:08,870 --> 01:33:06,090
make a great point Ryan

2105
01:33:11,959 --> 01:33:08,880
I mean extraterrestrials aside this is

2106
01:33:14,120 --> 01:33:11,969
huge news extremely exciting

2107
01:33:16,100 --> 01:33:14,130
I mean big-time stuff is happening in

2108
01:33:17,930 --> 01:33:16,110
space all the time now and we do live in

2109
01:33:20,800 --> 01:33:17,940
science fiction times and it's super

2110
01:33:23,120 --> 01:33:20,810
exciting so removing the alien

2111
01:33:26,360 --> 01:33:23,130
possibility it's exciting on its own

2112
01:33:28,189 --> 01:33:26,370
zone but yeah I think responsible

2113
01:33:30,620 --> 01:33:28,199
journalists and responsible scientists

2114
01:33:33,200 --> 01:33:30,630
certainly take note of this and see the

2115
01:33:35,000 --> 01:33:33,210
unusual behaviors and certainly

2116
01:33:38,030 --> 01:33:35,010
considering all of the unknowns that

2117
01:33:41,209 --> 01:33:38,040
exist with this thing you can't rule out

2118
01:33:44,959 --> 01:33:41,219
the possibility that this is something

2119
01:33:47,720 --> 01:33:44,969
you know that has an extraterrestrial an

2120
01:33:49,580 --> 01:33:47,730
intelligent extraterrestrial component

2121
01:33:51,830 --> 01:33:49,590
to it that doesn't mean we're saying

2122
01:33:53,510 --> 01:33:51,840
that it is but being a responsible

2123
01:33:55,729 --> 01:33:53,520
scientist and not having all the answers

2124
01:33:57,379 --> 01:33:55,739
you do need to keep an open mind and you

2125
01:33:58,459 --> 01:33:57,389
do have to weigh all the possibilities

2126
01:34:00,590 --> 01:33:58,469
and that's certainly a possibility

2127
01:34:02,120 --> 01:34:00,600
coming from a media standpoint you know

2128
01:34:03,530 --> 01:34:02,130
it's interesting how you know

2129
01:34:05,390 --> 01:34:03,540
rania made that joke you know they're

2130
01:34:07,399 --> 01:34:05,400
playing in the headlines you know the

2131
01:34:10,580 --> 01:34:07,409
alien aspect of it and I don't know if

2132
01:34:12,470 --> 01:34:10,590
that's just kind of more a telling sign

2133
01:34:14,479 --> 01:34:12,480
of how the media's more quick baby

2134
01:34:16,459 --> 01:34:14,489
nowadays or just the fact that they're

2135
01:34:18,560 --> 01:34:16,469
more open to running headlines like that

2136
01:34:20,990 --> 01:34:18,570
in general that that's what they pull

2137
01:34:24,350 --> 01:34:21,000
from that the fact that NASA centers are

2138
01:34:25,700 --> 01:34:24,360
saying it could be aliens so either way

2139
01:34:27,770 --> 01:34:25,710
you look at it I think you know you have

2140
01:34:29,030 --> 01:34:27,780
this you know then potentially trying to

2141
01:34:30,620 --> 01:34:29,040
sensationalize a little bit by running

2142
01:34:32,450 --> 01:34:30,630
out in the head wine but also that's

2143
01:34:34,310 --> 01:34:32,460
kind of the news too because you know

2144
01:34:36,890 --> 01:34:34,320
maybe 20 years ago NASA scientists would

2145
01:34:38,419 --> 01:34:36,900
have been so open to even state that

2146
01:34:41,090 --> 01:34:38,429
claim so I think it's fascinating how

2147
01:34:42,740 --> 01:34:41,100
it's been played out well in what's even

2148
01:34:45,169 --> 01:34:42,750
more exciting to is because of this

2149
01:34:47,540 --> 01:34:45,179
object they're building another

2150
01:34:49,010 --> 01:34:47,550
telescope in Chile once it's completed

2151
01:34:50,899 --> 01:34:49,020
they're gonna use it to search for

2152
01:34:52,820 --> 01:34:50,909
similar objects like you said Maureen

2153
01:34:54,140 --> 01:34:52,830
there are possibly other objects out

2154
01:34:57,590 --> 01:34:54,150
there like this

2155
01:34:59,540 --> 01:34:57,600
so now it's pushing scientists to fund

2156
01:35:01,850 --> 01:34:59,550
these telescopes to look for more of

2157
01:35:03,800 --> 01:35:01,860
them and you can't ask for more than

2158
01:35:05,870 --> 01:35:03,810
that and you can't ask for more than all

2159
01:35:08,240 --> 01:35:05,880
of these scientists writing new papers

2160
01:35:10,399 --> 01:35:08,250
arguing comet asteroid something other

2161
01:35:11,870 --> 01:35:10,409
than that it just keeps going and going

2162
01:35:14,780 --> 01:35:11,880
and the fact that we don't have a clear

2163
01:35:17,419 --> 01:35:14,790
answer yet of what this thing was that's

2164
01:35:19,700 --> 01:35:17,429
actually exciting than giving an answer

2165
01:35:21,950 --> 01:35:19,710
I think that unknown is what keeps us

2166
01:35:27,620 --> 01:35:21,960
going and I think that is buried 100%

2167
01:35:30,950 --> 01:35:27,630
yes oh please come back we've barely got

2168
01:35:34,970 --> 01:35:30,960
to know yet and we want to show you well

2169
01:35:35,950 --> 01:35:34,980
this is why I do a UFO podcast and not

2170
01:35:39,130 --> 01:35:35,960
poetry

2171
01:35:42,470 --> 01:35:39,140
moving right along to episode 93 I

2172
01:35:44,990 --> 01:35:42,480
welcomed diana walsh posaga to the show

2173
01:35:47,360 --> 01:35:45,000
she is a professor of Religious Studies

2174
01:35:50,210 --> 01:35:47,370
at the University of North Carolina

2175
01:35:52,910 --> 01:35:50,220
Wilmington and chair of the department

2176
01:35:56,870 --> 01:35:52,920
of philosophy and religion her latest

2177
01:36:00,530 --> 01:35:56,880
book made a huge splash in early 2019 in

2178
01:36:02,930 --> 01:36:00,540
that is American cosmic UFOs religion

2179
01:36:05,540 --> 01:36:02,940
technology rusalka interviewed

2180
01:36:07,880 --> 01:36:05,550
successful and influential scientists

2181
01:36:10,160 --> 01:36:07,890
professionals and Silicon Valley

2182
01:36:12,890 --> 01:36:10,170
entrepreneurs who believed in

2183
01:36:14,840 --> 01:36:12,900
extraterrestrial intelligence thereby

2184
01:36:17,570 --> 01:36:14,850
disproving the common misconception that

2185
01:36:20,630 --> 01:36:17,580
only fringe members of society believe

2186
01:36:22,280 --> 01:36:20,640
in UFOs American cosmic explores the

2187
01:36:25,550 --> 01:36:22,290
intriguing question of how people

2188
01:36:27,740 --> 01:36:25,560
interpret unexplainable experiences in

2189
01:36:30,080 --> 01:36:27,750
the book argues that the media is

2190
01:36:32,690 --> 01:36:30,090
replacing religion as a cultural

2191
01:36:35,090 --> 01:36:32,700
Authority that offers believers answers

2192
01:36:37,130 --> 01:36:35,100
about non-human intelligent life and the

2193
01:36:39,340 --> 01:36:37,140
enigmatic phenomenon often connected to

2194
01:36:44,420 --> 01:36:39,350
all of this UFOs

2195
01:36:47,450 --> 01:36:44,430
so basically I see this as what I set

2196
01:36:49,190 --> 01:36:47,460
out to do when I realized that a lot of

2197
01:36:52,100 --> 01:36:49,200
people were interpreting their

2198
01:36:55,940 --> 01:36:52,110
encounters and sightings as religious

2199
01:36:58,520 --> 01:36:55,950
like right or spiritual I'm like Carl

2200
01:37:00,890 --> 01:36:58,530
Jung I said wow this is an this is

2201
01:37:04,400 --> 01:37:00,900
something unprecedented this is a new

2202
01:37:06,740 --> 01:37:04,410
type of religiosity it has nothing to do

2203
01:37:10,370 --> 01:37:06,750
with old types of traditional religions

2204
01:37:14,240 --> 01:37:10,380
and so the thing I wanted to convey by

2205
01:37:16,160 --> 01:37:14,250
this book for academics was that the

2206
01:37:18,020 --> 01:37:16,170
digital infrastructure and this is what

2207
01:37:20,210 --> 01:37:18,030
Jacques understood too when he says that

2208
01:37:22,850 --> 01:37:20,220
the phenomena acts like a technology the

2209
01:37:25,130 --> 01:37:22,860
digital infrastructure has created a new

2210
01:37:27,170 --> 01:37:25,140
form of spirituality a new form of

2211
01:37:28,910 --> 01:37:27,180
religion really whereas we have these

2212
01:37:31,190 --> 01:37:28,920
old forms of religion where we have

2213
01:37:33,080 --> 01:37:31,200
basically guys who begin these religions

2214
01:37:35,210 --> 01:37:33,090
like you know it's the Buddha or you

2215
01:37:36,980 --> 01:37:35,220
have you know you have some religions

2216
01:37:39,070 --> 01:37:36,990
started by women but not not many and

2217
01:37:42,410 --> 01:37:39,080
you know you have like a central figure

2218
01:37:44,600 --> 01:37:42,420
Muhammad you know and then they start

2219
01:37:47,540 --> 01:37:44,610
their religion but here what you have is

2220
01:37:49,669 --> 01:37:47,550
you have a diffuse form of spiritual

2221
01:37:52,669 --> 01:37:49,679
reality for people who

2222
01:37:54,860 --> 01:37:52,679
talk amongst themselves and they it's

2223
01:37:57,350 --> 01:37:54,870
communities of people and there there's

2224
01:37:59,899 --> 01:37:57,360
no hierarchy here I mean you know there

2225
01:38:02,630 --> 01:37:59,909
are people who are experienced errs like

2226
01:38:05,270 --> 01:38:02,640
Travis Walton say and you know has a a

2227
01:38:07,340 --> 01:38:05,280
movie made or something like that but in

2228
01:38:09,620 --> 01:38:07,350
but you know with the the contact

2229
01:38:11,810 --> 01:38:09,630
movements that are but that are

2230
01:38:14,030 --> 01:38:11,820
springing up through all over the globe

2231
01:38:16,790 --> 01:38:14,040
right now you have this diffuse form of

2232
01:38:18,890 --> 01:38:16,800
religion and spirituality that is you

2233
01:38:21,080 --> 01:38:18,900
know going everywhere it's it's kind of

2234
01:38:23,680 --> 01:38:21,090
leaky it's like networking and it really

2235
01:38:26,450 --> 01:38:23,690
replicates the internet it replicates

2236
01:38:28,280 --> 01:38:26,460
technology even the synchronicities our

2237
01:38:31,550 --> 01:38:28,290
technological you know people can have

2238
01:38:33,770 --> 01:38:31,560
bought synchronicities so you know I

2239
01:38:35,899 --> 01:38:33,780
really wanted to show that to people

2240
01:38:38,540 --> 01:38:35,909
I also that's why I kind of kept going

2241
01:38:40,490 --> 01:38:38,550
back to 2001 a Space Odyssey yeah why

2242
01:38:43,550 --> 01:38:40,500
don't you show that well for one thing

2243
01:38:45,500 --> 01:38:43,560
Wow Kubrick was insanely brilliant I

2244
01:38:47,240 --> 01:38:45,510
don't even know I mean how did he know

2245
01:38:50,390 --> 01:38:47,250
all of this back then I don't know I

2246
01:38:52,610 --> 01:38:50,400
love Robert Ayers interpretation of the

2247
01:38:55,340 --> 01:38:52,620
monolith as like the iPhone or the

2248
01:38:57,979 --> 01:38:55,350
screen you know and that you know the

2249
01:39:01,760 --> 01:38:57,989
monolith functions as this alien

2250
01:39:06,169 --> 01:39:01,770
technology and it's created a new form

2251
01:39:07,850 --> 01:39:06,179
of religiosity so Carl Jung so I I was

2252
01:39:11,630 --> 01:39:07,860
trying to answer Carl Jung's

2253
01:39:13,550 --> 01:39:11,640
challenge this book is certainly making

2254
01:39:16,100 --> 01:39:13,560
waves in the mainstream scientific

2255
01:39:18,340 --> 01:39:16,110
community theological communities and

2256
01:39:21,169 --> 01:39:18,350
even the intelligence community's

2257
01:39:23,209 --> 01:39:21,179
pisanka even claims that because of the

2258
01:39:24,890 --> 01:39:23,219
sensitive nature of some of the people

2259
01:39:27,680 --> 01:39:24,900
she interviewed in the book every

2260
01:39:29,660 --> 01:39:27,690
interview she gives is monitored and

2261
01:39:32,090 --> 01:39:29,670
sometimes even vetted for either

2262
01:39:34,820 --> 01:39:32,100
classified information or information

2263
01:39:36,740 --> 01:39:34,830
that may give away the identities of

2264
01:39:38,689 --> 01:39:36,750
some of the permanent people who went

2265
01:39:41,959 --> 01:39:38,699
out on a limb to give their thoughts and

2266
01:39:44,330 --> 01:39:41,969
experiences with the UFOs that's pretty

2267
01:39:46,760 --> 01:39:44,340
scary it's actually true otherwise it's

2268
01:39:47,870 --> 01:39:46,770
a really good marketing tool Bravo

2269
01:39:50,240 --> 01:39:47,880
yourself

2270
01:39:52,490 --> 01:39:50,250
another book that will release in mere

2271
01:39:56,300 --> 01:39:52,500
weeks is won by someone the sky's

2272
01:39:59,300 --> 01:39:56,310
regular contributor MJ bananas MJ is an

2273
01:40:02,120 --> 01:39:59,310
educator writer and youtuber his book

2274
01:40:04,760 --> 01:40:02,130
the UFO people a curious culture is

2275
01:40:07,640 --> 01:40:04,770
going to release any day now and I had

2276
01:40:10,640 --> 01:40:07,650
him on for episode 99 to discuss the

2277
01:40:13,610 --> 01:40:10,650
book in debt the book is part narrative

2278
01:40:15,740 --> 01:40:13,620
journey and part cultural study and it's

2279
01:40:17,930 --> 01:40:15,750
a challenge to the UFO subculture and

2280
01:40:20,420 --> 01:40:17,940
the broader public to recognize that

2281
01:40:23,420 --> 01:40:20,430
UFOs and the people who study them

2282
01:40:27,440 --> 01:40:23,430
challenge societal norms institutions

2283
01:40:30,800 --> 01:40:27,450
and even ideology the UFO phenomenon

2284
01:40:33,440 --> 01:40:30,810
real or not abandons us to a ghostly

2285
01:40:36,170 --> 01:40:33,450
realm where nothing should be taken for

2286
01:40:37,580 --> 01:40:36,180
granted I think you know if for your

2287
01:40:38,780 --> 01:40:37,590
longtime listeners and all the shows

2288
01:40:40,160 --> 01:40:38,790
I've sort of been on previously on

2289
01:40:41,960 --> 01:40:40,170
somewhere in the skies I think they've

2290
01:40:45,290 --> 01:40:41,970
sort of heard me say it many times but

2291
01:40:47,840 --> 01:40:45,300
I'm very confident that ufology is

2292
01:40:50,090 --> 01:40:47,850
actually philosophy if you follow Jesus

2293
01:40:51,680 --> 01:40:50,100
aim like I'm gonna sort of argue a bit

2294
01:40:56,150 --> 01:40:51,690
that there really is no ufology proper

2295
01:40:59,300 --> 01:40:56,160
but the art of engaging with the UFO

2296
01:41:02,360 --> 01:40:59,310
phenomenon or or UFO discourse is really

2297
01:41:05,960 --> 01:41:02,370
a philosophical project the way we

2298
01:41:08,810 --> 01:41:05,970
interpret reality is all mediated by

2299
01:41:11,420 --> 01:41:08,820
language and how we make and give things

2300
01:41:14,300 --> 01:41:11,430
meaning anytime you give anything

2301
01:41:16,520 --> 01:41:14,310
meaning or definition you are creating a

2302
01:41:17,990 --> 01:41:16,530
reality for it reality is real in the

2303
01:41:20,540 --> 01:41:18,000
sense that you know things exist in the

2304
01:41:22,220 --> 01:41:20,550
universe and and and you know objects

2305
01:41:26,450 --> 01:41:22,230
are there like there is an objective

2306
01:41:27,050 --> 01:41:26,460
reality but without us it really has no

2307
01:41:32,450 --> 01:41:27,060
meaning

2308
01:41:34,700 --> 01:41:32,460
so a coffee cup is a coffee cup

2309
01:41:36,290 --> 01:41:34,710
not because of some objective coffee cup

2310
01:41:38,120 --> 01:41:36,300
it's a coffee cup because we say it's a

2311
01:41:41,360 --> 01:41:38,130
coffee cup whenever you deal with any

2312
01:41:44,030 --> 01:41:41,370
meaning whatsoever in reality you can

2313
01:41:47,030 --> 01:41:44,040
tear that meaning down and so you can

2314
01:41:50,030 --> 01:41:47,040
kind of go through why certain ideas we

2315
01:41:52,760 --> 01:41:50,040
have have the ideas that sort of are in

2316
01:41:54,350 --> 01:41:52,770
them you know why are why is the

2317
01:41:56,510 --> 01:41:54,360
masculine masculine or why is the

2318
01:41:58,280 --> 01:41:56,520
feminine feminine we can break those

2319
01:42:01,439 --> 01:41:58,290
ideas down and see where they came from

2320
01:42:03,780 --> 01:42:01,449
we sort of create meaning in turn but

2321
01:42:05,970 --> 01:42:03,790
ultimately we can kind of start to chip

2322
01:42:07,800 --> 01:42:05,980
away at the different layers and filters

2323
01:42:10,020 --> 01:42:07,810
we've applied to the world around us

2324
01:42:12,330 --> 01:42:10,030
there's sort of one thing though that

2325
01:42:14,550 --> 01:42:12,340
that typically defies meaning and as a

2326
01:42:16,800 --> 01:42:14,560
sort of undefinable thing or an

2327
01:42:18,689 --> 01:42:16,810
undestructible thing and a ghost is a

2328
01:42:22,130 --> 01:42:18,699
great example of this right a Spectre is

2329
01:42:24,780 --> 01:42:22,140
something that cannot be I guess

2330
01:42:26,669 --> 01:42:24,790
deconstructed because it exists and it

2331
01:42:28,620 --> 01:42:26,679
does not exist right ghosts by their

2332
01:42:30,720 --> 01:42:28,630
very nature are real and not real

2333
01:42:32,700 --> 01:42:30,730
they're fact and fiction they're their

2334
01:42:34,800 --> 01:42:32,710
their reality and mythology

2335
01:42:37,530 --> 01:42:34,810
simultaneously and we can't necessarily

2336
01:42:40,530 --> 01:42:37,540
kind of break them down not really

2337
01:42:42,450 --> 01:42:40,540
ghosts as like the spirits of the Dead

2338
01:42:44,459 --> 01:42:42,460
ghosts more as sort of our shared

2339
01:42:45,780 --> 01:42:44,469
experiences as a society and it gets all

2340
01:42:47,550 --> 01:42:45,790
quite philosophical and I go through

2341
01:42:50,820 --> 01:42:47,560
that in the book but to sort of quickly

2342
01:42:53,490 --> 01:42:50,830
boil this down the UFO community is sort

2343
01:42:55,530 --> 01:42:53,500
of similar the UFO community exists and

2344
01:42:58,260 --> 01:42:55,540
it does not exist very similarly just

2345
01:42:58,800 --> 01:42:58,270
like the UFO the UFO exists and does not

2346
01:43:01,650 --> 01:42:58,810
exist

2347
01:43:05,010 --> 01:43:01,660
it's a specter it shows up and it

2348
01:43:07,830 --> 01:43:05,020
disappears it took to a lot of people

2349
01:43:09,209 --> 01:43:07,840
it's real it's a real physical object

2350
01:43:10,979 --> 01:43:09,219
that's tangible that they can touch

2351
01:43:14,459 --> 01:43:10,989
they've been aboard that they've

2352
01:43:16,860 --> 01:43:14,469
experienced in some way not just seeing

2353
01:43:21,150 --> 01:43:16,870
it but engaging with it communing with

2354
01:43:24,810 --> 01:43:21,160
it in some way but others the UFO is a

2355
01:43:28,140 --> 01:43:24,820
myth it's its folktale it's it's just

2356
01:43:30,450 --> 01:43:28,150
lore it's it's mythology right so the

2357
01:43:32,520 --> 01:43:30,460
UFO exists in this dual state and the

2358
01:43:33,209 --> 01:43:32,530
people who pursue UFOs you know us the

2359
01:43:36,180 --> 01:43:33,219
UFO people

2360
01:43:38,240 --> 01:43:36,190
we're also ghosts we sort of haunt

2361
01:43:41,700 --> 01:43:38,250
mainstream culture and popular culture

2362
01:43:45,419 --> 01:43:41,710
we have our feet in two worlds right we

2363
01:43:47,160 --> 01:43:45,429
on the one hand we go to Starbucks and

2364
01:43:49,770 --> 01:43:47,170
drink coffee we drive our kids to dance

2365
01:43:52,169 --> 01:43:49,780
class you know we we buy minivans and

2366
01:43:54,630 --> 01:43:52,179
and and apartments and houses and we

2367
01:43:56,160 --> 01:43:54,640
have day jobs and we and we have a bank

2368
01:43:58,350 --> 01:43:56,170
account and pay our mortgage like you

2369
01:44:00,510 --> 01:43:58,360
know we live that life that normal daily

2370
01:44:01,260 --> 01:44:00,520
sort of what we would deem real life

2371
01:44:03,270 --> 01:44:01,270
quote unquote

2372
01:44:05,790 --> 01:44:03,280
but then on the flip side were also a

2373
01:44:08,070 --> 01:44:05,800
group of people who believe in things

2374
01:44:09,930 --> 01:44:08,080
that ought not to exist right we believe

2375
01:44:12,330 --> 01:44:09,940
in UFOs and we believe in ghosts and we

2376
01:44:14,510 --> 01:44:12,340
believe in potentially Bigfoot all of

2377
01:44:16,520 --> 01:44:14,520
these other paranormal phenomena that

2378
01:44:18,260 --> 01:44:16,530
Challenge the other side right they

2379
01:44:19,910 --> 01:44:18,270
challenged the idea of you should go to

2380
01:44:22,070 --> 01:44:19,920
Starbucks and have a mortgage and Driver

2381
01:44:25,430 --> 01:44:22,080
kids to dance class they challenged the

2382
01:44:27,380 --> 01:44:25,440
very fabric of our daily lives so how do

2383
01:44:29,480 --> 01:44:27,390
we reconcile this right how do we as

2384
01:44:31,480 --> 01:44:29,490
people who believe in flying saucers and

2385
01:44:34,640 --> 01:44:31,490
UFOs and interdimensional beings

2386
01:44:36,950 --> 01:44:34,650
reconcile the fact that I still like pay

2387
01:44:39,290 --> 01:44:36,960
a mortgage and have a bank account and

2388
01:44:43,340 --> 01:44:39,300
for some reason like go to work every

2389
01:44:45,500 --> 01:44:43,350
day and like to what end right so we we

2390
01:44:49,400 --> 01:44:45,510
get stuck in this ghostly realm this

2391
01:44:51,920 --> 01:44:49,410
in-between realm of our daily lives that

2392
01:44:54,200 --> 01:44:51,930
we would say are real is real and then

2393
01:44:56,930 --> 01:44:54,210
this UFO world that we would say is real

2394
01:44:57,320 --> 01:44:56,940
and they're an incredible conflict with

2395
01:45:01,580 --> 01:44:57,330
each other

2396
01:45:03,620 --> 01:45:01,590
I actually think conflict is a very good

2397
01:45:07,190 --> 01:45:03,630
way to put it and to kind of wrap this

2398
01:45:10,400 --> 01:45:07,200
up US UFO people are our own greatest

2399
01:45:13,100 --> 01:45:10,410
supporters but many times are also our

2400
01:45:13,670 --> 01:45:13,110
own greatest enemies just like any other

2401
01:45:17,480 --> 01:45:13,680
community

2402
01:45:20,810 --> 01:45:17,490
we often gossip fight and sometimes even

2403
01:45:22,760 --> 01:45:20,820
sabotage one another's work but I don't

2404
01:45:26,330 --> 01:45:22,770
want that to be what this show ever

2405
01:45:28,850 --> 01:45:26,340
becomes so I am counting on you the

2406
01:45:32,390 --> 01:45:28,860
listeners to keep me grounded when I'm

2407
01:45:34,550 --> 01:45:32,400
reaching too far or too low these past

2408
01:45:38,270 --> 01:45:34,560
100 episodes have shown me some of the

2409
01:45:40,960 --> 01:45:38,280
most interesting scary dark inspiring

2410
01:45:43,640 --> 01:45:40,970
mysterious and sometimes even

2411
01:45:45,770 --> 01:45:43,650
unbelievable conversations going on

2412
01:45:49,220 --> 01:45:45,780
around the world about UFOs and

2413
01:45:51,200 --> 01:45:49,230
paranormal phenomena everyone likes a

2414
01:45:52,730 --> 01:45:51,210
good story but I wanted to make

2415
01:45:55,670 --> 01:45:52,740
somewhere in the skies more than just

2416
01:45:57,170 --> 01:45:55,680
entertainment I wanted it to be a place

2417
01:45:59,240 --> 01:45:57,180
where people could share their thoughts

2418
01:46:02,030 --> 01:45:59,250
and opinions without judgement and

2419
01:46:04,730 --> 01:46:02,040
ridicule and as we hurtle forward to

2420
01:46:07,340 --> 01:46:04,740
what I hope is another 100 episodes and

2421
01:46:09,920 --> 01:46:07,350
more I want to thank each and every

2422
01:46:11,840 --> 01:46:09,930
person who gave me a chance who would

2423
01:46:15,020 --> 01:46:11,850
there for me from the very beginning or

2424
01:46:17,270 --> 01:46:15,030
just hopped on for this episode I hope

2425
01:46:19,880 --> 01:46:17,280
you'll go back through the archives and

2426
01:46:23,210 --> 01:46:19,890
revisit topics that you find interesting

2427
01:46:25,040 --> 01:46:23,220
that open your mind and even your eyes

2428
01:46:27,140 --> 01:46:25,050
to what may be out there

2429
01:46:30,140 --> 01:46:27,150
and I hope that we can continue to

2430
01:46:33,680 --> 01:46:30,150
search for answers and even ask new

2431
01:46:35,240 --> 01:46:33,690
questions thank you so much for

2432
01:46:37,880 --> 01:46:35,250
listening and thank you to the e1

2433
01:46:40,460 --> 01:46:37,890
podcast network for always being there

2434
01:46:42,140 --> 01:46:40,470
for me if you have a story to share with

2435
01:46:44,240 --> 01:46:42,150
me or you want to check out past

2436
01:46:46,640 --> 01:46:44,250
episodes be sure to check out our

2437
01:46:49,820 --> 01:46:46,650
official website somewhere in the skies

2438
01:46:52,340 --> 01:46:49,830
calm we're on Twitter at summer skies

2439
01:46:55,190 --> 01:46:52,350
and Instagram at summer skies pomp

2440
01:46:57,710 --> 01:46:55,200
please do me a huge favor and head on

2441
01:46:59,990 --> 01:46:57,720
over to Apple podcasts and subscribe to

2442
01:47:02,030 --> 01:47:00,000
the show while you're at it please also

2443
01:47:04,790 --> 01:47:02,040
rate and review the show every

2444
01:47:07,250 --> 01:47:04,800
subscription rating and review brings us

2445
01:47:10,130 --> 01:47:07,260
closer to being featured on the Apple

2446
01:47:13,070 --> 01:47:10,140
podcasts pages be sure to check out our

2447
01:47:15,950 --> 01:47:13,080
official store at T public comm just go

2448
01:47:18,560 --> 01:47:15,960
to te e public comm and search for the

2449
01:47:20,720 --> 01:47:18,570
semolina sky story and the last thing

2450
01:47:23,330 --> 01:47:20,730
I'm going to ask of you is please just

2451
01:47:25,850 --> 01:47:23,340
share the show with your friends word of

2452
01:47:27,260 --> 01:47:25,860
mouth goes a really long way when it

2453
01:47:30,470 --> 01:47:27,270
comes to getting the word out about a

2454
01:47:31,250 --> 01:47:30,480
podcast so please just tell anyone you

2455
01:47:33,230 --> 01:47:31,260
know about it

2456
01:47:36,170 --> 01:47:33,240
you never know they might even have

2457
01:47:37,910 --> 01:47:36,180
their own UFO story to share thanks

2458
01:47:40,490 --> 01:47:37,920
again for listening and I'll see you

2459
01:47:42,830 --> 01:47:40,500
here next week and remember keep your

2460
01:47:44,690 --> 01:47:42,840
feet on the ground but never stop

2461
01:48:24,120 --> 01:47:44,700
searching somewhere in the skies

2462
01:48:25,810 --> 01:48:24,130
[Music]

2463
01:48:28,280 --> 01:48:25,820
[Applause]

2464
01:48:30,050 --> 01:48:28,290
somewhere in the skies is produced by

2465
01:48:32,240 --> 01:48:30,060
Third Kind productions in association

2466
01:48:33,770 --> 01:48:32,250
with the entertainment one podcast